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Retirement Annuities

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Linda

Harry we are clients of Cashkows and I can recommend them highly, they were professional, the kept us informed throughout the process, expedited the whole process without faltering or BS, their name may not appeal to you, but their service was excellent. I have nothing but good words to say about them. Please update us on your experiences.

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Cathy K

We did it on our own, and Momentum came through. The amount of e-mails between us was still impressive. There were some misunderstandings....

For any tax queries we referred them to the person at ABSA bank who handled our financial emigration. It seems that one of the biggest obstacles is the insistence of all financial institutions in South Africa that emigrants must again emigrate financially (with them handling the procedure at great cost). This also happened when I received a small inheritance from my Mom. We simply refused to do that. We took great care to emigrate officially in 2001 and were able to furnish them with the necessary documents and information.

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TanyaFXC

Hi all,

Forex Capital can assist you with the emigration-process as well as then sending the funds to Canada at a fraction of what your bank in SA will charge you.

Please feel free to email me on tanya@forexcapital.co.za for any advise or enquiries about the process of emigration and the exchange control allowances

( regulations).

We are a Financial services provider , fully FSB compliant and authorised intermediary as approved by SA Reserve Bank.

Thank you

Tanya vd Westhuizen

FX Capital

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kodacat

I used CashKows last year 2013 and they were fantastic. Very professional and efficient.

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KReed15063674

Hi all,

This is all very interesting and I was wondering if it is at all possible to move your retirement fund from SA to Canada and not lose that insane amount to tax?? I don't really want to leave any money in SA as I really don't think the Rand is going to get stronger and I feel that in the long run I will be losing money if I leave my retirement fund in say and get the pay outs when I retire...

Kelly

Edited by KReed15063674

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pretor

Hi all,

This is all very interesting and I was wondering if it is at all possible to move your retirement fund from SA to Canada and not lose that insane amount to tax?? I don't really want to leave any money in SA as I really don't think the Rand is going to get stronger and I feel that in the long run I will be losing money if I leave my retirement fund in say and get the pay outs when I retire...

Kelly

Taking a tax haircut: no way to avoid that.

Leaving it in SA: My opinion is to take the tax hit now and get it out and invest it in Canada.

I'm in the process of bringing the last of my SA funds over. I wouldn't call the process painless but, up to now, I've not found it as frustrating and/or opaque as others on here. I had to open a non-resident blocked account and used Nedbank for that. Was very easy to do although it did take a few emails to get all the information to them. I'm dealing with Liberty and Sanlam. Working with Liberty was great, the payout happened very soon after receiving all the documents (BTW Kelly, the tax hit was 12% of the original amount). Sanlam is a different story.... More about these experiences later, once I have everything tied up.

Edited by pretor

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Tracey22

There is a double tax agreement in place between Canada and SA. When you submit your first tax return, inlcude your retirement annuities etc that you cashed in. you may get a tax credit depending on the differences in tax laws.

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Cathy

I am going through the process at the moment. One thing that confuses me is Standard Bank says the monies have to be paid into my Standard Bank blocked rand account. How do I get the money from that account into my Canadian bank account?

Can Old Mutual or Momentum transfer the money directly into an equivalent financial vehicle here in Canada?

I thought that once I have been through the process of financially emigrating things would be easy. More fool me

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Hendie

Cathy, I strongly suggest you try the services of CashKows. The name sounds funky, but they really know their stuff. They helped us out when we needed our RAs out. Part of the process is the creation of a temporary account in your name in RSA, specially for this purpose. Works like a charm. Talk to Ryno Viljoen or Steve Porter, you're welcome to mention that you heard about them on SACanada :)

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kodacat

I used CashKows - they were very professional. Very happy with their service.

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Cathy

Unfortunately I am too far along the journey to use CashKows. I did want to use them initially but they were unable to give me any indication of how much it would cost me for their services.

I already have the necessary blocked rand account I was just hoping that someone who had done the transfer of funds themselves might be able to answer my question.

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pretor

I am going through the process at the moment. One thing that confuses me is Standard Bank says the monies have to be paid into my Standard Bank blocked rand account. How do I get the money from that account into my Canadian bank account?

Can Old Mutual or Momentum transfer the money directly into an equivalent financial vehicle here in Canada?

I thought that once I have been through the process of financially emigrating things would be easy. More fool me

Cathy, I've just gone through the process. I would advise against using an intermediary to do the work for you. I had a modest amount in SA (less than R500k) and Cashkows quoted a fee of approximately 10% of that. Your bank in SA will be able to transfer the money to you in Canada. When I started I did not have a blocked SA account, so I opened one with Nedbank. Fantastic service, very helpful and knowledgeable. I also never bothered with the financial emigration thing. Nedbank did that for me after I opened my account with them. Your bank may require you to fill out forms to ensure that you're not a terrorist or money launderer and you may have to courier original documents to SA. But all in all my experience was pretty painless. Once the insurance company paid the money into my Nedbank account (non-resident blocked account) I instructed them to transfer the funds to my Canadian account. Took 3 business days and it set me back a few hundred rand. All being said, the whole escapade set me back by probably R2000 - R3000 (including courier fees). It really is not a difficult process. Perhaps if I had millions it would've been a different story altogether...

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Guest

Thanks for the update Pretor. I am busy with this whole exercise too and will let you know how mine works out! Didn't know that bank can do your financial immigration for you.

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Cathy K

Didn't know that bank can do your financial immigration for you.

Oh they can! And they charge you a pretty penny for it! We diligently did our financial emigration before we emigrated. Last year I received a small inheritance from my Mom. The bank that handled her affairs insisted that we do it all over again. It was quite a hassle and took a lot of effort to make them change their minds. We had to send the contact details of the original bank as well as that of the person who handled our financial emigration.

Then we retired a small annuity. Same story! Try to sort that out with someone who is completely computer illiterate and has a limited knowledge of English. The fact that we had to do it during South African business hours didn't help either! :censored:

Edited by Cathy K

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pretor

Thanks for the update Pretor. I am busy with this whole exercise too and will let you know how mine works out! Didn't know that bank can do your financial immigration for you.

You're welcome Lawrence. Yeah, it was news to me also - actually I didn't even think about the financial emigration thing, it really is quite an obscene concept.... Nedbank was really professional and full of advice. They supplied me with the MP336 form,I filled that out (took a few iterations to get that right but email is patient), once they were satisfied they submitted the application to the Reserve Bank and I couriered the original documents and Bob's your uncle, we were done. Dealing with the insurance companies was interesting: Liberty was a breeze, Sanlam not so much...

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dallant

I'm having Sanlam too,not the easy to deal with,not flexible at all!

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kodacat

The fees paid to CashKows can be claimed as a deduction here in Canada.

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pretor

You're welcome Lawrence. Yeah, it was news to me also - actually I didn't even think about the financial emigration thing, it really is quite an obscene concept.... Nedbank was really professional and full of advice. They supplied me with the MP336 form,I filled that out (took a few iterations to get that right but email is patient), once they were satisfied they submitted the application to the Reserve Bank and I couriered the original documents and Bob's your uncle, we were done. Dealing with the insurance companies was interesting: Liberty was a breeze, Sanlam not so much...

Update on this: I received the last of my funds from SA earlier this week. The whole process was relatively painless. There was one hiccup: One of the tax certificates that Sanlam requested did not show up, so they had to resubmit the request. That caused a two week delay. But apart from that, no problems. The rate-determining processes were (i) obtaining the tax residency certificate from the CRA and (ii) obtaining tax directives from SARS. The CRA took 8 weeks to send the residency certificate. SARS came through in 4 weeks with two of the tax directives and the third one took 6 weeks.

I am quite pleased that I did not use an intermediary for assistance. The fee quoted was exorbitant (10-15% of my total investments) and, looking back at the emails I received from them, there was definitely some scaremongering to get me to use their services.

Edited by pretor

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Tracey22

good to hear everything turned out well

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Guest

Thanks for the update Pretor! Glad it all worked out and you saved yourself money in the process. I am also working through my bank in South Africa. Just waiting to finalize the sale of our home and then we will complete the transfer of our retirement annuities etc.

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Hennie vdB

Same here - we used Cashkows - excellent service, and very efficient. They kept bugging me to send back the completed forms, instead of me having to chase them. Remember the tip elsewhere on forum - get copies certified at City Hall - much cheaper than from notary / lawyer.

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Harry

Reporting Back - Do NOT do this thing by yourself

I have a 6 page document ready describing exactly what happened in the process I went through in getting annuities with four SA firms paid out, three of them above R75,000. I am not prepared to publish it in the open, but those who are interested, can get hold of me for a copy. You'll need coffee for that one, and it may very well change your future.

I shall state here the salient points:

1. Getting a policy under R75,000 paid out is comparatively quick & simple and I will not focus on it. I had two such policies with one firm.

2. It took 70 days to get everything required into the hands of the other three firms. This included getting hold of Revenue Canada Tax Certificates of Residence and shipping docs via DHL to banks. It also inlcuded the elusive SARS Tax Clearance Certificates. The blocked account was created in a few days.

3. It took just 6 days for Momentum to pay out one of my largest policies after receipt of the above documents; they should be commended = 76 days in total. Their appointed agent also did a great job.

4. Liberty, by contrast, using the same documentation, paid out ONE YEAR AND 53 DAYS after first being contacted; twenty-three days short of a full year after having all the required docs. After letting me suffer for essentially a year, they pretty much disclosed that they never submitted the required docs to the SARS in the first place in 2014, but had now (Jan 2015) done it!! Certainly, they did not require new documents from me to submit a request for a tax directive and they got it pretty quickly after ACTUALLY submitting the request. Their appointed agent was of very little help and pleaded ignorance of the required procedure. Yet Liberty pretty much refused to communicate directly with me for well nigh a year.

5. Old Mutual thought it intelligent to MAIL me --- I kid you not--- MAIL ME their pay-out notice in the middle of an SA Mail Strike and refused to answer or send e-mails. The documents arrived several months later, and my SA Bank neglected to tell me that the transfer had occurred, despite a standing order to the effect.

6. I contacted Cashkows, but they suggested I continue my efforts via my tax consultant in SA. I think they smelled a dead rotting KOW.

7. In desperation, my tax consultant met three times with SARS, who gave him great trouble and insisted we emigrate again.... I KID YOU NOT. So we did that entire process YET AGAIN. And then SARS said, "no", all was actually fine in the first place. Unbeknown to us, Old Mutual had already MAILED the payout notice..... mailed(!!)

8. I cannot in good conscience support the well-meant opinion/advice expressed in these pages that folks should do this themselves. It is a recipe for strokes and heart attacks. That advice is statistically guanteed to kill some innocent folks here, and I am QUITE serious when I say that. I certainly am quite sure my life has been significantly shortened by my effort at doing this myself.

My advice is to hire a separate party to do this for you, and to pay them their pound of flesh. This advice of mine is NOT based on whether you can figure out what to do or not. I'm quite sure you are all intelligent enough to handle the process. My advice is based on my experience in dealing with four separate South African annuity firms and experiencing their concept of client care in the process. One was superb, and two were simply incompetent and unconcerned. The single greatest South African disease is communication, or rather, the lack thereof.

Lastly, if you think these firms WANT TO pay out your annuities, you are deluded. They have everything to win by acting stupid and incompetent and by wilfully refusing to communicate; they win by KEEPING YOUR ACCOUNT ALIVE and in their claws. If you withdraw your funds, they win zero. Go do the math. YOU NEED HELP.

The 6-page document walks the reader through EXACTLY what happened to me; blow by blow. It is guaranteed to leave you terrified of this process. Unfortunately it is the 100% honest truth.

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dallant

Thanks Harry! Valuable info. I'm dealing with Sanlam, i will definately use a third party

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Hennie vdB

Wow, Harry, that sounds like enough material for a second book! Agreed, very happy that I used Cashkows, and I now discover the fee includes after-emigration service as well - looking after both me and my wife's PPS annual payment transactions in SA until we reach 60, and the payout formalities at that time. Taking that into account, the fee is sounding better each day, especially after reading your post.

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Tracey22

Our difference was that we did most of the leg work while we were in SA. We just had to land, get a letter from the CRA and bob's your uncle. Also, our funds were deposited straight into bank accounts. we did not have to worry about cheques.

Glad to hear everything worked out for you in the end

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