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ChristineViljoen

Cost of living in Fort McMurray

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Pierre

I got this from my tel book:

Canada/Alberta jobs - Job & employment information 1800 666 5014

Canada Alberta Service Center 780-743 7192 (local in FMM)

Career information hotline - 1800 661 3753

Employment: Service Canada Provincial building 1 800 206 7218\Autmated service 1 800 531 7555

General Inquiries 780 743 7000 (Municipality)

Reading the local newspaper online would also help TODAY

Wanted Class 1 Driver, end dump ...

Prairie Express looking for Class 3 ...

The Pillar Pub (located in the Podollan ...

The Radisson Hotel & Suites Fort ...

Thunderbird Security Alberta Ltd. is ...

Tio Mario Restaurant is looking for ...

Williams Chrysler Ltd has positions for an Auto Detailer and Laborer Undercarriage Clean. If you are interested please bring your resume to William @ 324 Gregoire Drive. No Phone Calls Please.

etc There are 135 jobs from my search

BTW you can have two or three jobs at the same time. I mean the same week but at different shifts. Many people have two jobs and a few have three. They are typically the ones who just want to make the maximum amount of money and probably dont have a life for a while.

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Pierre

SettlingInTheFort

I found out that two of the companies that do drilling for an oil company here is:

Encore coring & drilling - Calgary, AB, CA

Encore Coring & Drilling Inc.

PH: (403)287-0123

FAX: (403)243-6158

tom.connors@ensignenergy.com

If you click this company it takes you to Ensign.

Ensign

PH: (250)774-4545

FAX: (250)774-4515

http://www.ensignenergy.com/

Ensign Energy Services Inc. is Canada’s second largest land-based drilling contractor and third largest well servicing contractor. Ensign provides oilfield services for the North American and international market. The Company’s Canadian oilfield service operations consist of land-based contract drilling, underbalanced drilling services, well servicing and provides manufacturing, wireline and production testing to the crude oil and natural gas industry.

Foundex in Vancouver

http://www.foundex.com/html_site/firstscreen.html-ssi

http://www.foundex.com/html_site/staffmain.htm

We combine experience, versatility and technology to provide geotechnical and construction drilling, mineral exploration and environmental contracting services to our global clients. At Foundex we offer our clients a complete and professional service both nationally and internationally.

Corporate Head Office

14613 64th Avenue

Surrey B.C., Canada

V3S 1X6.

Telephone: 604-594-8333

Fax: 604-594-1815.

Toll Free: 1-888-FOUNDEX

1-888-368-6339

They even do drilling close to the noth pole - I would imagine that the pay must be good there.

Check the websites for more details.

Local number in FMM:

Encore: 780 713 3400

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SettlingInTheFort

Hey Pierre, thanks so much for your generosity. I will see if I am able to contact these guys during my lunch break tomorrow.

As for contacting drilling employers, is it okay to ask for hourly wage and etc? Because after all, I am only willing to move to Fort McMurray if it provides better paying opportunities than Calgary. However, if I was am employer, I wouldn't want to be asked such things. As you might have noticed, I haven't had a lot of jobs in the past so I hope you can understand.

By the way, I was doing a job search over the weekend and found a company that is in need of a water bottle delivery driver (No previous education / training required). It is mentioned in the ad that for 40 hours a week work, the pay is $4,500 with staff accomodation provided. What do you think about this? I think it is excellent pay. In addition, I could get a second job over the weekends to supplement my income. Do most people (Except those working in McDonalds, Tim Hortons, A&W, and etc) in Fort McMurray make this kind of money?

I guess I am going to go ahead and apply for this one tomorrow. Hope I get it!!!

Thanks once again Pierre, it is very nice of you how you are doing your best to help out everyone in this forum.

P.S: For jobs in Fort McMurray (Particularly the water delivery driver), how long should I wait from the application date until I realize that the job has already been offered to some other person (Or unavailable)?

I have noticed that for some jobs, they contact you after two months. I have a friend that has had been contacted nearly a year after he applied for the job!!!

Oh I almost forgot by the way. The job posting closing date is October 15. Although my qualifications meet or exceed every requirement, it is too bad they only have position for one person. Man, it seems like too good of an opportunity to pass on. Especially for those with only entry-level skills!!!

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Pierre

I saw a Cullinan truck delivering water bottles the other day.

Someone also tried to get me to drink purified water - he was a marketing man.

Delivering water happens once per week in the office block where I work. Its about 12 bottles for our coffe room and it lasts a week for making coffee or tea etc.

Distributing water could well be a fulltime job considering how many businesses and office complexes there are around here.

I can believe the pay yes.

You can also deliver pizza at Pizza Hut using your own car, or deliver newspapers daily or weekly. This is sometimes a second job.

People who work 15/6 shifts or 6 on 6 off use the off days to do a second job.

Accommodation is expensive. Earls restaurant bought a hous where it offers accomodation to their employees from out of town.

There is absolutely no harm in asking the rate and even bargaining for it. Anyone can ask a question. It's just fair.

McDonalds, Tim Hortons, A&W

You should see how many ads along the road there is for people for these jobs.

Another one I see regularly is a filling station attendant for day or night shift or sandwich maker.

Another place will adjust their schedule to suit your availability, just to get staff.

Do most people in Fort McMurray make this kind of money?

Pay is usually quoted per hour or per month based on a work week of x-amount of regular hours. I suspect the $4500 is for a month.

They have lowered the age limit for kids to work in stores and restaurants so that staff can become available. Most school kids work part time at Tim Hortons or similar.

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SettlingInTheFort

Hey Pierre,

Just a quick couple questions for the night...

1. Earlier in the posts, I remember reading something about oil field workers taking the coach buses to work in the morning. However, I also have heard from someone else that some companies are willing to pay for your accomodation and meals in a camp. What is exactly a camp we are speaking of here? Is it basically pretty much a facility set up for workers out in the sites so that they don't have to commute everyday, saving the company money in transportation costs?

2. How are these camps, in terms of quality of service provided to workers and etc? I wouldn't expect a five-star quality stay, but I would not want to stay at a unsanitized place that serves awful tasting food.

3. As far as isolation goes in the camps (I would assume they are located outside of town), are there access to e-mail, internet in these areas? If so, would you be able to hook your computer up in your room for internet access? Or is there a common room for that? If not, are there internet cafes in town for a reasonable price? During your time off in the weekends, is there a bus shuttle that operates frequently so that you are able to come into town?

4. For people working a 15/6 routine, would the employers (That supply accomodation and board) ask you to be responsible for your own acccomodation and board when you are on your off days? I would assume that most people go back to their homes but I plan on getting a second job... I also have heard that some pay for your flight back home. Are employers as such common?

5. If I am responsible for my accomodation during my 6 days off, which I think is fair enough, what are my options in finding a place to stay during that time?

I told myself that I would only ask you a few but it ended up being too many. Unfortunately, I don't know anyone that lives in FMM. I sometimes feel like I am asking too much for an ordinary FMM resident to answer. However, I really appreciate the time and effort you are providing me. All the information you have provided are very useful (To be honest with you, I haven't been able to contact the phone numbers but I will get on that ASAP :o). I can't wait to get out there and start a new life!!!

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SettlingInTheFort

Hmm, I checked back on today to see if anyone had responded to my questions. However, under the main page of FMM, the message I posted last night may have not gone through because it wasn't recognized. If so, everyone please let me know so I can repost it. Thanks!!!

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Pierre

Ok, Settling in, just a quick couple of answers.

1. Yes

2. I have not lived in the camp but visited there once. It's actually a hotel.

3. The camps are just outside the boundary of the factory. There is a bus service to town but I dont know the timing.

4. Company provided accommodation covers the days off as well.

Not all contractors are acommodated in the camps. BTW they are called lodges, not camps.

I think it is mainly meant for acommodating out of town construction workers of a temporary nature.

When the company has a shutdown (called a turnaround) for say 4 weeks, it uses that acommodation to bring in hundreds of temporary people to do the work. The town cannot acommodate an influx of a thousand workers. Hotels and guest houses are normally full with semi permanent construction workers. Construction of big expansion takes place over 2 or 3 years.

The CEP union may be able to give you answers to the questions above.

Edmonton Office

202-9940 -106 St.

Edmonton, AB T5K 2N2

T: (780)420-4976 F: (780)424-2505

E Mail: macneil3@telusplanet.net

Roland Lefort

CEP Local 707

278 Wolverene Drive

Fort McMurray, AB T9H 4R5

T: (780) 791-9844

W (780) 743-3933

Email: rlefort@telus.net

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SettlingInTheFort

Hey Pierre, thanks once again for your help. I did contact the CEP union so hopefully I'll get a response tomorrow. In the meanwhile, I also purchased an Oil Employment booklet online yesterday so hopefully I'll be ready to leave town for FMM soon. I hope I get the best employment opportunity out there :D.

Well, I guess I still have to take the required safety courses first :D.

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Pierre

hi Settling in, here is some more info I obtained from a bus buddy who lived 3 months at the lodge (camp).

There is an executive section.

The food is very good. According to him he got better steaks than at the best restsurant in town.

This coming weekend, the company where I work has it's annual BBQ. It is catered by the same company providing the food at the Borealis lodge. And I know from past experience it is very good.

Overtime is paid at double time by the company I work at.

All overtime is double time.

On stats it is 3 times. Double time plus paid sat.

Ovetime starts when one's shift is over.

The rule for time off is one day in every 7 days worked.

You work 6 days and earn one day off.

After 12 days working you get two days off.

After 18 days working you get 3 days off.

After 24 days working you get 4 days off.

Nobody works more than 24 days in a row.

I hope I get the best employment opportunity out there

It takes a bit of time to find the best opportunity.

At first one would find a job and then as you get to know about better opportunities, you would migrate to better job situations.

For the record:

Contractors get charged for using the lodges for their out of town employees. It is not free.

The going rate for LOA is $135/day or arounf $4000/month.

Many employees tend to take the LOA and provide for their own accommodation.

They live cheap somewhere, like sharing acc with other contractors and pocked the difference.

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SettlingInTheFort

What is LOA? And for the executive section, do you mean a place for the bosses to stay in or a place where you can get access to the internet?

In addition, if the going rate for that is $4000 a month, does that mean you are earning $25 / hour ($4000 / 160 hours, since you can only work up to 40 hours a week if the employer chooses not to give you overtime)?

I might be wrong since you mentioned that overtime starts when one's shift is over. But I thought overtime starts when one works MORE than 40 hours a week... Once again, correct me if I am wrong please.

Or perhaps it works like this:

$135 / 8 hour work day = $16.88 / hour

12 hour work day X 6 working days = 72 hours / week = 288 hours / month

$4000 / 288 hours = $13.89 / hour

8 hour work day X 6 working days = 48 hours / week = 192 hours / month

$4000 / 192 hours = $20.83 / hour

Please let me know what is the right calculation Pierre...

I was hoping that I would be able to earn more but it seems like this is the limit since I will only be hired by a contractor. I was hoping to look at a bit higher figures (Somewhere in the range of $23-25 / hour) with provided accomodation and board...

If this is the case, I would have to think about moving to FMM one more time since I could be better off just working for Telus in Calgary, which pays $18.55 / hour base with multiple benefits available. I have heard that Telus in Calgary is in very desperate need of employees so with my qualifications, I think I will fit in. In addition, the Telus job is not physically demanding nor you would have to work over 40 hours a week.

Added with the ability to obtain a weekend part-time job for around $15 / hour and a cheaper living expense, Calgary seems like the better option.

I don't mean to offend any FMM resident, but I would personally prefer living in Calgary over FMM (Although I have never been to FMM). Only reason for me to move to FMM is to make significantly higher income than what I would be making in Calgary. Being young and growing up in big cities for the most part of my life, I would much rather prefer the Calgary nightlife although I would be making a few hundred dollars less.

I aplogize for being arrogant but hope you can understand. Just wanted to vent for a few seconds you know? In the meanwhile, I will keep looking around to find the best employment availability possible. Who knows? I may find a good opportunity and decide to move to FMM. You never know until the fat lady sings :D.

Until then, I will keep looking and posting as I come up with some more questions (If you don't mind :D). Wish me luck!!!

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Pierre

LOA is living out allowance.

Good luck

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SettlingInTheFort

Hey Pierre, so does that mean the employees receive LOA plus the hourly wage (Or monthly salary) for their pay? If so, that seems like too good of a deal to pass on...

But I don't think that is the case... No employer is going to provide an unskilled worker $4000 just for living expenses... I may be wrong though... Let me know...

By the way, I contacted Roland Lefort (The CEP local) and he was able to tell me a few questions I had in mind. He also suggested me that I find a JOB and ACCOMODATION before I come. I guess there is an employer named Eveready that is looking for labour workers for $20 / hour to start off with provided accomondation. If you would happen to know anything about Eveready, I would be glad to hear from you.

In the meanwhile, I will keep searching for the best opportunity possible!!!

Thanks Pierre!!!

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Pierre

Exactly!

People that are brought here for a contract period get a LOA of $135/day plus their regular pay plus overtime. The LOA is actually more than enough to live on and the rest is pocketed or blown on their fancy.

But not everyone can come here on that basis. You have to find out for each case if it applies or not.

The expenses for the labour is usually passed on from the ontractor to the client company. Skilled labout in town is scarse and companies have to fork out the additional expense to get people here.

People that live here permanently, dont get a LOA.

I dont know the Eveready company. From the tel book and web, they are Eveready Industrial Services Corp

Chemical Cleaning and Decontamination

Hydro-Excavation (or hydro vac)

etc - and things to do with oilfields.

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SettlingInTheFort

Whoa Pierre, that is a lot of $$$$$!!!

$4000 a month for just living expenses? All I can say is, WOW!

I guess I will have to find out which companies in town pay the most and etc.

Assuming I live in someone else's house ($600) plus the food costs, it can't get any higher than $1500!!!

Meaning I can pocket $2500 and still get paid extra for my job!!!

So altogether, I am looking at around $5000 / month. Very good I must say...

Well, thanks once again for your reply. I guess I am going to have to keep looking around here and find my best option.

I guess I would rather find an employer that will give out an LOA instead of those who are willing to provide accomodation. I hope I can find one!!!

One quick question: Is this also applicable to entry-level jobs as well? As I have mentioned in the previous posts, I don't have any University degree (Not completed) or any specific skills (Except for knowing how to do basic painting and working at a gas station for a few years).

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civicchick

I just have a question, me and myboyfriend are moving to fort mcmurray in jan. He is taking a heavy equipment operators course and I am an administrative assistant. I called a bunch of places looking for jobs and apartments and one of the main things that concern me is I do not know what area's I should maybe stay away from or what area's are better than others.. or even what apartments are good. If anyone has any information that may help would be greately appreciated. thank you!

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Pierre

civichick, I did not see your post earlier.

There are usually lots of places with vacancies for administrative assistants. And the pay is really good I understand. I am not sure how the positions are advertised though. But the oil companies HR should be a good place to start. I can put you in touch with people in public relations if you wish.

Apartments are spread out all over the city. There are no really bad spots to avoid. The one area that is rumoured as undesired would be Waterways. But I dont think there are any appartments there anyway. Abasand is alo referred to as troublesome, but I lived there a few months and didnt notice anything except youths drinking in basements of parking lots. Also there were damage to school playground equipment nearby. The youths were apprehended and had to serve civil duties for a while.

Finding an apartment should be fairly easy. There have been a lot of new blocks built in Timberlea in the past year. Apartments downtown are also popular because of closeness to shops and nitelife with no need to travel. The problem with apartments is that parking is limited. There is just parking for one vehicle. If more than one is required, they park on the street and that also fills up pretty quickly. People prefer houses with big driveways for lots of cars and then they still park on the street as well. The garage is seldom used for parking a vehicle.

I have some friends living in apartments. One Indian couple living downtown feel that it is not safe walking about at nite near the pub areas and are moving to a house sometime soon. Drug trafficing is a problem downtown near pubs and hotels.

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civicchick

yea that is the same thing ive been hearing..

Any help would be great job related. The only problem i am running into is the fact that I cant leave here till after december... I have applied for a few jobs, but stated i was not available till then so I dont know if they wouldnt even consider me because of that reason.

I see a ton of job postings for administrative assistants, Im really hoping to have something set up before I go. I am currently working a full time job and would hate to leave it for nothing. If you know what i mean.

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Pierre

Housing prices continue to rise

Wednesday November 29, 2006

Despite falling housing prices in the United States, local house prices are not likely to follow suit, according to a national survey conducted by Century 21.

While prices are dropping south of the border, in Edmonton and Red Deer, the price of a typical bungalow increased 36 per cent and 19 per cent respectively from January to June.

During the same period, there was just a one per cent increase in Fort McMurray, and a local broker says that's a down period.

During the first six months, housing inventory was high, which caused prices to drop, says Diann Pellerin, broker-owner of Century 21 in Fort McMurray. As the number of available houses dropped, prices began to go up again.

Prices in booming communities like Fort McMurray don't go down a lot, said Pellerin, adding, "The one per cent increase is probably our ‘down.’”

In this kind of market, prices will continue to go up as people continue coming in and oilsands expansions continue, the broker said.

"But you're not going to see the big increases we saw a few years ago. A few years ago, there wasn't a lot of inventory, so prices went up," Pellerin said.

In the first six months, the selling price of a detached two-storey house in Fort McMurray was $441,599 and in the fall, it was up to $445,000. Five years ago, that type of house sold for $207,815.

Don Lawby, president of Century 21 Canada, said in a news release that all Canadian markets will avoid the price declines experienced in many markets in the United States while Alberta and British Columbia will remain Canada's strongest markets.

“Housing markets in both Canada and the U.S. have had robust price increases for several years, with some regions growing at spectacular rates,” said Lawby.

“In Canada over the past six months, price increases have slowed except for a few hot markets, but all markets are supported by strong economic fundamentals such as job growth and stable mortgage rates,” he said.

“In the U.S., the economies of certain regions and cities have weakened throughout 2006 and can’t continue to support house price increases.”

The survey included 39 markets across the country over two time periods -- over the past six months and the past five years.

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CraigC

Task force targets housing

By LARISSA LIEPINS

Today staff

Friday February 02, 2007

Local affordable housing advocate Ravi Natt will sit on Premier Ed Stelmach’s new task force charged with finding ways to provide more affordable housing in Alberta.

Natt is the chairwoman of the Wood Buffalo Housing and Development Corporation (WBHDC), the agency providing affordable housing in this region.

The task force is chaired by Calgary-Foothills MLA Len Webber and includes Liberal and NDP politicians, as well as members of community groups from across the province.

It can spend $450,000 to hold community consultations in nine cities -- including Fort McMurray -- to come up with solutions to Alberta’s affordable housing crisis.

“We’re looking at some of the immediate needs (in) high-growth areas, such as Fort McMurray,” said Municipal Affairs and Housing Minister Ray Danyluk at a press conference in Edmonton on Thursday.

“If you look at Fort McMurray, we don’t have the affordable housing that is necessary.”

Danyluk said he hasn’t ruled out measures like rent control and the creation of a department that deals exclusively with housing -- and solutions will be tailored to the needs of individual communities.

The province could also transform vacant schools into shelters, Webber added.

Natt, meanwhile, said long-term solutions for Fort McMurray include “how land is released in the area and funding formulas.”

She has also been negotiating with the province to get money for families who can’t pay unexpected rent increases, she said.

In January, Timberlea resident and WBHDC tenant Brenda Easton’s rent jumped from $530 to $985 -- an 86 per cent increase.

While tenants’ rents go up, more people are waiting to get into the corporation’s housing units: Out of 480 currently on the WBHDC’s waiting list, 250 are in “core need,” Natt said.

“Right now they may be double-housed (although) I don’t have all the details. But we’re already working very closely with the government to come up with some short-term solutions.”

The 16-member task force begins its 45-day study on Monday, and will make stops in numerous centres across Alberta, including Fort McMurray between Feb. 16 and 28.

The exact dates of those community consultations have not been set yet, Natt said.

The task force will submit a report to Danyluk by March 19.

-- lliepins@fortmcmurraytoday.com

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Bob Fitzsimmons

For those who are considering moving to Fort McMurray some important things must be considered. Do you have a job to go too? Are you Educated? Have a Trade? Degree? Do NOT be fooled by all the hype about there being lots of work - especially if you are unskilled. 99% of the work requires some type of Higher Education, or Training, and is controlled in some way. If not you may be working at McDonalds for very low wages. Accomodation - Look at - mls.ca. It list homes for sale. Look in the local paper for rooms, or homes to rent. A room in a shared house can cost $1,000. A one Bd. Rm. apt (flat) can cost $1,600 a month, or more, plus utilities. A house $3,500 or more, plus utilities. For families it can be a good life. The City has growing pains but does a lot of family oriented activities. For single people there is not much. A lot of work involves living in a camp. Most camps are very good, and have really good food. It depends on if it accomodates Union workers, or Non-Union workers. Some Non-Union camps tend to suffer. Those camps are there to accomodate workers sent from Edmonton, Calgary, Vancouver, and other cities - NOT Fort McMurray. If you are NOT directly hired by a company like Suncor, or Syncrude as an Engineer, Mechanic, or a position like that, which was posted on their site, your chances of getting good work are very, very, slim unless you are registered with a Company, or Union in Edmonton, Calgary, Saskatoon, Regina, or other city. Some camps accomodate 2,500 men and woman at a time, but are restricted to those sent from another city. Workers sent from another city are bussed up directly to the camps, and only pass through Ft. Mac. The bus is free to registered workers and returns to Edmonton, Calgary and other cities on a regular basis. You can NOT get this work living in Fort McMurray. Do NOT go thinking you will be "lucky". The Hostel is full of people that did that and can't get work, and are broke. Only go if you have a job to go too.

A Sad Story - I met a fellow from Quebec. I saw him sitting alone and lost. I asked if I could help. He had come looking for work, because he had heard about all the work. He had NO money, no job, and was living in the "Hostel". I did what I could for him. I bought him lunch. His first food in 3 days. I took him to an Employment Center. He had a Trade so he could get work. I talked to his new boss and arranged a meeting. He was very "lucky" because he had a skill that was in demand. Many others are living in the woods around Ft. Mac, and living "rough". No Eduction, Training or recognised Skill means No Work. It's that simple.

If you have NO JOB, and and are NOT sent by a Union or Employer, but decide to take a chance you need 3 month rent = $3,000, Damage Deposit = $2,000, plus Excellent references, Living Expense's= $3,000 plus $2,000 for Winter work clothing, unless you work in an office. There are many poor, unemployed because they lack the required skills. Most Unions in Ft. Mac. are closed to new members. You need to join a Union in another city and transfer, or be hired directly by Suncor, or Syncrude, or other company.

Edited by Bob Fitzsimmons

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Bob Fitzsimmons

If you want house prices to rent or buy look in - mls.ca - for listings. Also look in the local paper in the Classified ads, just like any paper.

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Pierre

Bob those are interesting insights.

Iv seen a couple of variations on the theme with the same end results.

Even if you have an education that is in demand, you may not get an interview chop chop. It may take weeks or months to go through the recruitment cycle to finally land in a job which you qualify for.

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Bob Fitzsimmons

Big Money - Most of the stories I hear about BIG money are false. Guys I work with, who get the same money tell their families in the East they are making more than they are. It's those stories others in the East hear and assume are correct. Newspaper reports are based on people like Engineers working for a company like Suncor. They get Bonus's, Moving Expense, above Average wages, because they are TRAINED & EDUCATED. Locals driving truck, clerks, etc. do NOT earn more than if at home in Ontario.

You have to be hired ON LINE or UNION to qualify for really good money. I was sent here back in the 80's and get Time & a Half plus Double Time. Non-Union workers do not, and get less per hour. Local hires work as delivery drivers, warehouse, clerks and need a second income to get by.

Mine equipment is HUGE and requires Specialized Training, and are hired ON LINE or UNION. Equipment Operators need that Specialised Training or prior experience. There are only 2 other places to get that type of experience, South Africa, or Arizona. Highway work and such do NOT qualify as experience. Wives and girlfriends need to work to suppliment the income because of the expense of living up here. People work 2 or 3 jobs just to get by as the costs here are very high.

A Carpenter from the East told me he was hired back there and flies back and forth. He works 6 x 10 x 21 for straight time, and a week at home. He was under employed at home and this was better than no work, or Unemployment.

One unskilled fellow told me there were 5 people in a One Bed Room apartment. 3 are sleeping on the floor, one in the bed, one on the sofa. That is not uncommon. I had a couple in my bare unfinished, cold, basement paying BIG BUCKs just to get a roof over their heads.

No Degree, No Specialized Training, No Skills = NO MONEY

JOBS - If jobs in Ft. Mac. are not listed on a Company site, or Government of Canada Employment site, they probably do NOT exist. Unions do not list jobs. Alberta Union members are sent first. New members and other Provinces last. There are many FREE bus's going up and down the highway every weekend to Edmonton, Calgary, etc. with Union men and woman, who were sent, because they are qualified. Are You? ? If not - Why not? Get qualified at home first.

Edited by Bob Fitzsimmons

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Pierre

Bob, I was under the impression you might be a newcomer to FtMcM and perhaps Canada. From your third posting I gather you have been around for some time... or been here before and returned.

The South Africans I know working here are virtually all educated and recruited in SA. A few came over as PR's and had a solid trade and were employed by the big oil companies. All are doing well financially.

However the unskilled people that migrate here from the east (=maritimes) do often start off stuggling, doing two or three jobs to survive (or get rich).

The ones that suffer and that have my sympathy are those in the public service industry. Teachers, RCMP etc. They get just about the same salary as elsewhere in Canada but have to pay excessive amounts for rental accommodation. Thats when a lot of them rent a place to stay together.

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Bob Fitzsimmons
Bob, I was under the impression you might be a newcomer to FtMcM and perhaps Canada. From your third posting I gather you have been around for some time... or been here before and returned.

The South Africans I know working here are virtually all educated and recruited in SA. A few came over as PR's and had a solid trade and were employed by the big oil companies. All are doing well financially.

However the unskilled people that migrate here from the east (=maritimes) do often start off stuggling, doing two or three jobs to survive (or get rich).

The ones that suffer and that have my sympathy are those in the public service industry. Teachers, RCMP etc. They get just about the same salary as elsewhere in Canada but have to pay excessive amounts for rental accommodation. Thats when a lot of them rent a place to stay together.

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