Sign in to follow this  
Larry

Temporary Work permits

Recommended Posts

Karen

We understand Larry's frustration and stress levels at this time, but to think that everyone is being critical or smirking about this, is just totally ridiculous. A sense of humour in these circumstances will also go a long way.

Attitude is everything when you are undertaking something as mammoth as immigration, and you need to realise that people who have walked the path before, are only trying to offer valid and valuable advice. I fyou choose to take it, you will come out the winner, but if you don't, you cannot expect those who are giving help in good faith, to continue being all warm and fuzzy.

Always remember, in life you should never bite the hand that feeds you.

Rx - A few chill pills and a Castle Lager!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hendie
So folk let get some common ground, we use this platform to aire our views and request for information. Is it too much to ask for support and guidance rather than reading into the posting a welcome note to criticize.  ;)
As long as we are in this together I like most can be rather nice in response. Lets drive a friendly approach in our support of one another. :o

Larry I think you are being rather self-righteous here! The members on this forum has been nothing but helpful to you, and you have been nothing but cock-sure about how YOU will singlehandedly beat the immigration system. I would suggest that your attitude towards well meaning folks on this forum is doing more to alienate them than to endear them to your plight. Just remember that you will still need us once you are here, and your constant bickering about how people are "criticizing" you is not helping. I sympathize with the obstacles you are now finding in your way, and believe me, my family certainly had our share of stumbling blocks and beurocratic red tape back when we immigrated, but also know that this is not at all unusual, and you are well advised to take heed to the good advice given here on how to weather this storm and to ride the wild horse of immigration to completion. Now please grow up and LISTEN for a change!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Craig Cachia
I recommend keeping calm and putting things into perspective. You cannot change the way the wheels of the CHC turn, even although many would like to. Tact is the name of the game in your dealings with them and politeness often goes a long way if you get someone who is open to it. There is a way of dealing with folk employed by the govt and if you can find out what that is, it will be of great assistance to you. They way you address people can make the world of difference - I work for a govt dept and have learned that. Never become abusive or threatening - these people have the power to move even more slowly should they want to, believe me.
Larry I think you are being rather self-righteous here! The members on this forum has been nothing but helpful to you, and you have been nothing but cock-sure about how YOU will singlehandedly beat the immigration system. I would suggest that your attitude towards well meaning folks on this forum is doing more to alienate them than to endear them to your plight. Just remember that you will still need us once you are here, and your constant bickering about how people are "criticizing" you is not helping. I sympathize with the obstacles you are now finding in your way, and believe me, my family certainly had our share of stumbling blocks and beurocratic red tape back when we immigrated, but also know that this is not at all unusual, and you are well advised to take heed to the good advice given here on how to weather this storm and to ride the wild horse of immigration to completion. Now please grow up and LISTEN for a change!

Guys

Please forgive the comments I am about to make. I am new to the forum and the application process so I can take some poetic license and plead ignorance for a while.

With the greatest of respect to you two, please get your facts well and truly straight before you decide to offer patronising advice, accuse and threaten individuals who take the time to make contributions in the forum. Make no mstake that those of us still here in SA will need as much help as we can get when we get to Canada, but being threatened in a public forum like this is totally unacceptable in my view. I sincerely hope hendie's comment, thoughts and critisisms are isolated and do not reflect the views of the other South Africans in Canada.

Have you guys bothered to PM, phone or email Larry to find out the circumstances leading up to his starting this thread on the forum. That way taking it offline while seeking to understand the facts behind the case. I think not! Why not show some emotional intelligence and do so? You may actually be pleasantly suprised with what you find out. I see you are both forum hosts which must mean something. Why not show the maturinty and responsibility that comes with this? You are not dealing with 2 year olds here.

We are intimatly aware of how people would like to be treated - with respect, compassion and courtesy. We are all aware that people "with positional power" need to be treated especially nicely. However, we are also aware that we are entitled to some form of respect, courtesy and compassion in return. Please do not pretend to know what you think others are feeling, thinking or going through under certain circumstances. Take the time to check your perceptions 1st before commenting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Boereseun

I hardly ever comment when a topic gets too hot, but I just couldn't sit back on this one.

My first application failed, and I was furious. I was ready to write all kinds of nasty letters, form protest rallies etc. But in retrospect, I was wrong to feel that way. I let my emotions get in the way, as it would only worsen my plight.

No one has a 'right' to be in Canada, unless you were born here.

It is trully a priveledge.

It is a CHOICE to attempt to immigrate. No-one is forcing anyone to immigrate.

Since you are coming into 'their' country they have a right to make rules, change them, and deny entry to anyone.

Just think of it as someone wanting to see the inside of your home. You have the right to make rules, change them, and deny entry to anyone.

You are APPLYING to come to their home! You're a drop in the bucket of the 250,000 that want's get here annually. CFO's CEO's Engineers, Accountants, Lawyers, Credit Managers and even Policemen.

Everyone is treated with parity regardless of who they are, or who they think they are. (It is the Canadian way)

No disrespect intended toward anyone. This is just a general comment.

(Man I love disclaimers)

Clive

Edited by Boereseun

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hendie

With respect to Craig's posting in coming to Larry's defence: I have the greatest of respect for Larry and what he has been doing to offer support to the Durban CC. The point I was trying to address is his misguided impression that those already in Canada are criticizing him and not really helping much. Nothing could be further from the truth. If you look at the suggestions made and advice given you will see nothing but a desire to help. That was, and remains, the main purpose of SACanada's existence. You are correct in that you may be new to our experiences with Larry, and I can assure you a LOT of emails, personal calls via Skype and IM, personal time during his visit, and lots more has gone into this community's support of his immigration efforts. I do not often comment strongly about things, and I can assure you, a lot of thought went into posting my missive. :o

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
shaun

Please do me a favour and print this discussion. Keep it in a safe place.

Once you get to Canada and have been here for say a year or two go back and read what you wrote.

I think you might just have a little red faced moment.

Things like 'patronizing advise', 'accuse' and 'threaten' don't sit very well with me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Karen

Craig,

Whilst I agree with what you have written, you have to remember that both Hendie and I, mature individuals ( or so we think!), have been pushed to the end of our patience and tolerance here. Eventually, you are forced to respond, and we have.

I feel this site offers real value to all potential immigrants and newcomers to Canada. The plethora of information available here comes from the goodwill of those who have already walked the bumpy road of immigration. We are not paid individuals and the advice dispensed is done so from a genuine desire to make the immigration process and landing smoother for all who come after us. You can either take our advice or leave it - that is up to each individual, but to continue implying that we are not doing enough to help others, to make comments by innuendo that we are being critical or jealous or selfish or not supportive enough etc etc, does go against the grain.

We are volunteers here, we are part of this site because we want to be, but we also all have lives away from the board. We do not have the time to run around for individuals booking them into places, getting them prices etc and if we do, we certainly do not appreciate being kicked in the behind for our efforts. That's when we stop doing more for folk we know only via the internet and that is when we get our feathers a bit ruffled. Let it be made quite clear, that ex- pats living here have no moral obligation to help those arriving just because they come from the same place that we do. We help only because we want to and mostly, we meet the most appreciative wonderful folk through our efforts.

You have to realise that red tape will always get in the way of anything bureaucratic. You just have to accept that and make provision for it, even if it means your plans are altered. Stuff happens in this process, and the mature thing is to just deal with it and not become defensive and derisive. Call Canadians wimps and you won't endear yourself to any of them. Ask those going to Australia or NZ if they also endure such hitches, and I am certain that the vast majority do, but folk just sit tight, because they know that eventually they will get through the process.

No, we are not asking you to sing our praises here, just that we are shown the same common decency and respect that all of you reading here we want for yourselves. Self- righteousness and an attitude of being better and cleverer than everyone else, will certainly make your life a lot harder than if you listen up and go with the flow.

Edited by Karen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Linda

Just like Boerseun I tend to avoid the "one-on-one"'s as a rule, but having read all the posts in this thread I have to also add my tuppence.

The burocracy in Canada is firmly entrenched in EVERYTHING, things here happen BY THE BOOK, or some government official's interpretation of it, and even though it does have a huge downside to it, it is also what makes this country fairly stable and what makes it work.

Once you arrive here, and you start enrolling kids in school, applying for your health card (that one was really fun - they are IMMOVABLE when it comes to documentation proving your residence, birth, identification etc.), applying for work, etc. the frustration is sometimes overwhelming, in fact, I used to think (when we first arrived) that we as newly arrived immigrants have no navigational tools on arrival, there are very few "creative" ways around the way things work here, and a barely-existant network to draw from, so negotiation to eventually settling in is tough !

This forum is probably the one and only place where "patronising" (your choice of words - your perception too) comments are going to be found in Canada, because quite frankly, and in my experience, the general attitude with regard to your personal gripes here is generally "SUCK IT UP", in fact, that is a favourite phrase over here. So there might very well come a day when you wish for a few of those "patronising" comments from folk who have indeed experienced a whole lot more frustration than you have, and have some understanding for it.

I agree with Karen and Hendie, if you don't agree with people's opinions or their responses, then ignore them, but don't bite the hand ......... you never know when you might need it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Harry

Hmmm... Interesting!

I too have been keeping quiet here, and I suspect I have some of the longest and most consistent communication with Larry, including meeting personally.

Various folks will know that I have said "Larry's heart is in the right place" and that he approaches things face-on. I am very sure Larry has achieved much of his success in life by NOT taking "NO" for an answer and by battering at the problems he faces. The mere fact that he flew to Canada and got back to SA with a good job offer demonstrates that.

However, Larry will no doubt also confess that a number of my e-mails to him contain phrases like "Whatever you do, do NOT lose your cool"

HERE is the point:

Larry has 1 month of experience in Canada, during which time he obtained that job offer and during which time he had the odd run-in with the unique way in which the wheels grind in Canada. I'm sure he'll forgive me if I say that, in at least one case, he used the "battering ram" technique to get some stuff sorted out while in Canada. Maybe he got away with it that time, but I am also sure that he does not know what it is that the relevant individuals that got "battered" now actually believe. I also do not know whether he actually recieved the item that he "battered" them for in the end.

Canada is a strange place that inherited the British stiff upper lip, but not its humour or style. That "suck it up" statement is NOT made with a smile by Canadian society. It is in fact, a social order...."do it or else! This is how WE do it!" A level of "diplomacy" is inherent in everything here and this nation exhibits vastly less emotion that the Brits, believe me....they have perfected this art. You can get away with the odd battering effort, but the system shuts on you pretty quickly if people perceive "battering" to be your inherent style.

When one then tries the "battering" effort with a place that has full control over your life, and could keep you out of Canada for the rest of your life, like CIC, you want to think carefully, and much more than twice. This is why I have advised Larry to do what I did...instead of losing my cool with government guys that control my and my family's life, take a crowbar and beat up the koppie in your backyard..WHATEVER YOU DO, do not get aggressive with those guys.

SO , I believe this is what various folks have been trying to convey to Larry, and they feel that he is not listening to them. Folks here have great sympathy with Larry and the turmoil he is going through and the stresses he unavoidably has to manage in the family in this process. After all, we've all been there to a greater or lesser degree.!

Personally, I think Larry should take this advice to heart, keep his dedication and determination, but start to amend his style a bit before he becomes frustrated beyond help with Canada and its way of doing things and harms his own case beyond repair in that frustration.

So, Craig, I think you need to realise that a lot of folks on SACanada have made considerable human investment in Larry's quest for a new life for his family. They all want to see him succeed and they are scared he is going to cause his visas to be "torn up" by CIC.

That's my sixpence on this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
boeg

Quote from Shaun:

You deal with an application for PR, and then all of a sudden the application changes to one of work permit.

Maybe I am being horribly thick but why does your application have to change? It would make sense to view them as two seperate applications, each one to be assessed individually and on its own merits. Either can be refused without affecting the validity of the other.

If a job offer is permanent (what is 'permanent' by the way?), which let us say for the sake of argument is a 12 month contract, your PR application is fast tracked to 6-8 months. Why can't they give you a work permit, let you leave asap, and while you are working there your PR comes through. Then you have PR and you stay. If your work visa expires and you don't have PR, your gamble has failed and you go back to SA to wait for your PR. If you don't leave they can sanction you by refusing you PR.

I can't fathom why people who go there on a work permit and while there apply for PR, and people who, in their country of orgin, apply for PR and thereafter want to get the sought after 'canadian work experience" are treated differently.

The application form for the work permit does seem to hint that your application for PR might make it more difficult to get a work permit: they include it as specific disclosure to be made right after the usual questions whether you are a terrorist or a lunatic! It seems to me to be incumbent on the applicant to then endeavour to 'satisfy an officer that you will leave Canada at the end of the period of employment'. Evidence of immovable property and money in fixed term accounts, and other types of assets tied up in SA might might be the kind of stuff they would like to see. Maybe worth a try?

Is the problem with the definition of 'temporary' and 'permanent' employment? What category would a offer of two year (accounting or lawyering) articles fall into?

Perhaps we can invite someone from CHC to answer our questions on the forum :holy:

(just a little joke! :) )

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
shaun

In the situation I'm in at work at the moment there is no such thing as permanent.

This word only applies for immigration.

When I question the situation at work then I get "not even the prime ministers job is permanent" thrown in my face.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this