TammiM

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TammiM

Please guys i know this is probably answered somewhere in the forum but i just need some straight answers.

1. what do I need for the application. I know we have to have the IELTS Test,  police clearance certificate, and a health certificate. Is there anything else? My Husband is an electrician - qualified, are his school and qualification certificates we have valid or do we need more verification. 

2. Should we both apply for everything and both do the IELTS tests or are we ok on one application. I have family there which gives us another bonus. 

Please help, just want to make sure I have everything together before we apply

TIA 

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MaryJane

Hi Tammi!

1. To get into Express Entry, I believe you will need the language test (IELTS) and education credential assessment (ECA or WES). This is if you are applying for the normal Federal Skilled Worker (FSW) route. If the main applicant is your husband, you may fall under the Federal Skilled Trades (FST) route. Under the FST, he will need the language test (IELTS), 2 years work experience, meet the job requirement for the trade, must have a valid work offer or a certificate of qualification issued by the province.

Being a tradesperson, he will likely need to get his qualification evaluated.

2. This is harder to answer depending on what your strategy is. If you apply as the main applicant, do you guys have enough EE points to get selected in the draw? If you apply with him as the main applicant, will your points be better?

At this stage there's a lot of different alternatives still until you narrow down which way will be your best chance to get in.

Good luck though!

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TammiM

Hi Mary-jane 

Thanks so much for your reply!! Oh my word , why does this seem so complicated. How do we do the ECA? What is WES ? He doesn't have a valid job offer, so is it better to go for the Express Entry? After chatting to my brother in Canada, it seems that my husband is qualified as a master electrician in Canada- He meets the Canadian requirements for this.  Gosh im so overwhelmed, we will do whatever it takes to go, but i heard that if you apply and it is refused you cannot apply again? Maybe I need to get a lawyer to help us? 

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YolandaB

Hi @TammiM,

To narrow this down, I think your Husband should be the MAIN applicant. He falls under FSTC - Federal skills trades class (its express entry but they draw them twice a year). I think he has the best chance of getting selected.

Steps:

 - Husband gets his qualifications assessed   - He is in trades (so not sure who to assess this) - WES does not assess trade qualifications (as far as I know)

 - You get your qualifications assessed            -  you use WES (World education services)

 - Husband and you do IELTS (language tests)

 - Get marriage certificates ready

 - Once you get all these, you can open your Express entry profile - then we know your exact points.

***This is the starting point*** without these you can't open your Express entry.

Once done, come ask us for help here.... 😊

 

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TammiM

YolandaB

Thank you so much for your help!! I think I'm just feeling a bit overwhelmed , I need to take a step back and do what's needed now. I will put everything in and then see where we are. 

Again I really appreciate it❤

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OutOfSa

Hi Tia

It's normal to feel totally overwhelmed with the process.  When you begin, there just seems to be too many things to do and too many hills to climb.  I think we all had those feeling at one time or another.  They have a saying at my work here in Ontario  - - "How do you eat and Elephant?" -  Well, one bite at a time.  And the other favourite is "Slow and steady" - though, that one seems to get a bit trashed at times, because of deadlines that are impossible.  If we tried  (at work) to take the whole job on in one go, we'd run away.  

One bite at a time is the only way to do this. 

Read the guides that the Canadian government provides.  Read it once, and then again and then again.  Each time you read it, you will understand more and more about the process.  It appears complicated, but it's not really that bad - the waiting is probably the worst.  

There are also people that make a living from trying to place trades people - Matrix Visa comes to mind.  I have not heard bad things about him, but I don't know him nor do I have connections.  

The basic requirements to enter Canada are : Medical, Money, Qualifications, Age, Suitability (Family / Criminal = Police Clearance.)

Before you begin, don't believe anyone that promises you anything.  Of all the scandals I've come across in Canada, I've not heard of one that can speed up an application. There are fraud rings that bring people in, but they use the normal channels and speed.  They get caught too.  The common thread is even the criminals use the same system - at the same speed.  So no one can make it faster with YOUR money.  

To work as an electrician here you need different things for the different provinces.  To work independently as an electrician you need to be certified - usually this is done by a body in Canada.  Some people come here to do their certification.  

https://settlement.org/ontario/employment/professions-and-trades/evaluate-my-credentials/how-do-i-get-my-trade-experience-recognized-in-ontario/

Check the Ontario College of Trades’ list of skilled trades to learn which require a Certificate of Qualification.   

 https://www.collegeoftrades.ca/trades-in-ontario

If You Have Several Years of Experience:
If you have several years of experience in the trade you want to work in, you must apply for a Certificate of Qualification.

If your trade experience is not from working in Ontario, you will first have to pass a Trade Equivalency Assessment (TEA) provided by the Ontario College of Trades. The Ontario College of Trades created a TEA application guide that you must follow.

Etc, Etc.

Everything you need to understand about being an electrician in Ontario is linked above.  

You will hear about WES, WES is a qualifications (Degrees) equivalency body - they look at a degree and say  - " this is what your degree is worth in Canada".

They don't do trades.  

 

So, you need to get your Ilets done.  Both is better - more points. 

Get started with you profile(s). Get police clearances, get Medicals - WHEN THEY ASK, get original (Unabridged? for kids)  birth certificates, marriage certificates.  Figure out the money and how you will show "Proof of funds". 

One step at a time, you'd be amazed how quickly things start to come together - well, perhaps not the home affairs stuff !  

 

Now for the GOOD news:  We are entering an amazing time here - There is a chronic shortage of skilled people and it's getting worse.  They used to say stuff like that, but it never seemed to be obvious.  However, I am seeing it all the time - companies just can't find people, especially good people.  Sometimes it seems like we only have the bottom of the Gene pool to scrape at !  

So, get your stuff going, stop panicking ('cause it's a waste of energy) and start reading the links above and the immigration guide in the above post.  DON"T make any mistakes in you paperwork - no pressure, no really, of all the things, don't mess that up !

Soon perhaps you'll be stamping around in the snow, and making snow angels, it's more beautiful than you can imagine.  By the way, warn your husband that his head will probably explode when he see's the quality of workmanship here -  it's like a rabid raccoon on crack, with a sore toe and a hangover wired things here - wires go - net sommer!   Even rats won't stay in the "rats nest" because its such a mess they are ashamed when their friend come to visit.  Wires hang down walls, plugs are skew, conduits (if any) look like a one eyed newt with glaucoma shot them onto the wall from 3 feet away , with a one eyed newt conduit gun. 

So he might have reduce his SA neatness !  Ha, Ha.  If you're a well trained SA trades person, then the work you see here is like putting soap in your eyes, they water and you look away.  There are many reasons it's rubbish but that's for another day.  

You can make good money here and a good life.  If you really want to be here, put you fear away and start to fight for what you want !!!

 

 

 

 

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TammiM

@OutOfSa Oh my word you have made my decade!!!!! THANK YOU, THANK YOU THANK YOU, really you have given me so much encouragement and i feel TONS better! I dont know what line of work you are in but , you would make a seriously amazing life coach!❤

I Really appreciate all your info and good humour, you are amazing. 😁

Right I will do this, we will move mountains to get there! Sending you the biggest hug. Would love to keep in touch. 

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Lizelle
On 7/6/2019 at 10:00 PM, OutOfSa said:

 

There are also people that make a living from trying to place trades people - Matrix Visa comes to mind.  I have not heard bad things about him, but I don't know him nor do I have connections.  

 

I have plenty of bad things to say about him, I just don't :)  I would not recommend him.

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OutOfSa
4 hours ago, Lizelle said:

I have plenty of bad things to say about him, I just don't :)  I would not recommend him.

Yeah, I'm nasty !:badidea:

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OutOfSa
9 hours ago, TammiM said:

@OutOfSa Oh my word you have made my decade!!!!! THANK YOU, THANK YOU THANK YOU, really you have given me so much encouragement and i feel TONS better! I dont know what line of work you are in but , you would make a seriously amazing life coach!❤

I Really appreciate all your info and good humour, you are amazing. 😁

Right I will do this, we will move mountains to get there! Sending you the biggest hug. Would love to keep in touch. 

Hey thanks for the positive reply, I was having a bad day so I was nice....:D

Normally I'm just plain nasty and mean and I rile people up because I have "no filters" - so my colleagues say.  They still talk to me, so perhaps I am not 100% awful :whistling:

For all of you that I have seriously offended with my many rants, I do appologise.  I will try to be better. 

It's kind of like being dog poop, you try your very best to make the flowers grow all bright and bloomy, but in the end, you don't bio-degrade, you simply sit on the lawn and stink, slowly growing old, hard and nasty.  Then you attach to the mower wheel and go round and round, like a second hand on a crappy clock.  It's called lawn-mower-poop-putty.  It was designed by God to be the most powerful and nasty adhesive on the planet.  It has stealth mode, cause even if you pick it all up, there is one that lies in wait.  And considering the width of the mower wheels, it has to have poop-turbo-boost which allows it to jet into place at the last minute if it's not going to get the wheel.   

 

"I have plenty of bad things to say about him, I just don't :)  I would not recommend him."

Lizelle, I think New Zealand looks like an awesome place.  (Did I redeem self a little?)  No? Ok, New Zealand is a very  double awesome place... LOL forgive me please.  My brother would say of me when he introduced me to people, "this is my little brother, he has an 'interesting and unusual' sense of humour"  - which meant, he's a savage, prepare to be offended.  

Did I say I like New Zealand?  Actually, I do, I want to go there one day and see all the stuff - assuming the'll allow me; not because of me, but because Peter Pan the Selfie man made us into terrible criminals by weeping and agreeing we are a nation of genocidal maniacs.  

And now it's time to go, because I am starting to so South...:o

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Lizelle
1 hour ago, OutOfSa said:

Hey thanks for the positive reply, I was having a bad day so I was nice....:D

Normally I'm just plain nasty and mean and I rile people up because I have "no filters" - so my colleagues say.  They still talk to me, so perhaps I am not 100% awful :whistling:

For all of you that I have seriously offended with my many rants, I do appologise.  I will try to be better. 

It's kind of like being dog poop, you try your very best to make the flowers grow all bright and bloomy, but in the end, you don't bio-degrade, you simply sit on the lawn and stink, slowly growing old, hard and nasty.  Then you attach to the mower wheel and go round and round, like a second hand on a crappy clock.  It's called lawn-mower-poop-putty.  It was designed by God to be the most powerful and nasty adhesive on the planet.  It has stealth mode, cause even if you pick it all up, there is one that lies in wait.  And considering the width of the mower wheels, it has to have poop-turbo-boost which allows it to jet into place at the last minute if it's not going to get the wheel.   

 

"I have plenty of bad things to say about him, I just don't :)  I would not recommend him."

Lizelle, I think New Zealand looks like an awesome place.  (Did I redeem self a little?)  No? Ok, New Zealand is a very  double awesome place... LOL forgive me please.  My brother would say of me when he introduced me to people, "this is my little brother, he has an 'interesting and unusual' sense of humour"  - which meant, he's a savage, prepare to be offended.  

Did I say I like New Zealand?  Actually, I do, I want to go there one day and see all the stuff - assuming the'll allow me; not because of me, but because Peter Pan the Selfie man made us into terrible criminals by weeping and agreeing we are a nation of genocidal maniacs.  

And now it's time to go, because I am starting to so South...:o

:) I had no issue with your post. I am plenty forward in my opinions, and I don’t get offended by your posts.

I meant that I generally don’t say anything about him because he is on SACanada, and I don’t want to bother picking an all out fight. I did not mean that I don’t say anything bad but you do :) 

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Lizelle
1 hour ago, OutOfSa said:

Lizelle, I think New Zealand looks like an awesome place.  (Did I redeem self a little?)  No? Ok, New Zealand is a very  double awesome place... LOL forgive me please.  

:) actually, I was thinking of doing a post and asking for it to be pinned, called “Why Canada sucks and you have to move to New Zealand.” Figured that would be click-baity enough :)

It’s not so much that I think NZ is better than Canada (although I do), it’s that I can see that immigration is getting harder around the world, and I think it is criminal to tell someone that we all know has about a snowball’s chance in hell to get selected by a province to just keep the faith. If you just try a little harder and tweak your resume just a little more, then maybe the stars will align.

Meanwhile, the Rand is dropping in value, and countries around the world keep putting up more barriers to entry. By the time 3 years had passed and the person figures out that it’s never going to happen, all the people that told them to just keep trying will have moved on with their lives overseas, and that person is stuck with their thumb up their a**. And now they cannot move anywhere else.

People are hopefully coming here to get some honest advice. Giving them platitudes does nothing but harm.

( :) sorry Tammi, we seem to have hijacked your thread a little).

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TammiM
8 hours ago, Lizelle said:

:) actually, I was thinking of doing a post and asking for it to be pinned, called “Why Canada sucks and you have to move to New Zealand.” Figured that would be click-baity enough :)

It’s not so much that I think NZ is better than Canada (although I do), it’s that I can see that immigration is getting harder around the world, and I think it is criminal to tell someone that we all know has about a snowball’s chance in hell to get selected by a province to just keep the faith. If you just try a little harder and tweak your resume just a little more, then maybe the stars will align.

Meanwhile, the Rand is dropping in value, and countries around the world keep putting up more barriers to entry. By the time 3 years had passed and the person figures out that it’s never going to happen, all the people that told them to just keep trying will have moved on with their lives overseas, and that person is stuck with their thumb up their a**. And now they cannot move anywhere else.

People are hopefully coming here to get some honest advice. Giving them platitudes does nothing but harm.

( :) sorry Tammi, we seem to have hijacked your thread a little).

No problem, I like the honesty! 

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TammiM
9 hours ago, OutOfSa said:

Hey thanks for the positive reply, I was having a bad day so I was nice....:D

Normally I'm just plain nasty and mean and I rile people up because I have "no filters" - so my colleagues say.  They still talk to me, so perhaps I am not 100% awful :whistling:

For all of you that I have seriously offended with my many rants, I do appologise.  I will try to be better. 

It's kind of like being dog poop, you try your very best to make the flowers grow all bright and bloomy, but in the end, you don't bio-degrade, you simply sit on the lawn and stink, slowly growing old, hard and nasty.  Then you attach to the mower wheel and go round and round, like a second hand on a crappy clock.  It's called lawn-mower-poop-putty.  It was designed by God to be the most powerful and nasty adhesive on the planet.  It has stealth mode, cause even if you pick it all up, there is one that lies in wait.  And considering the width of the mower wheels, it has to have poop-turbo-boost which allows it to jet into place at the last minute if it's not going to get the wheel.   

 

"I have plenty of bad things to say about him, I just don't :)  I would not recommend him."

Lizelle, I think New Zealand looks like an awesome place.  (Did I redeem self a little?)  No? Ok, New Zealand is a very  double awesome place... LOL forgive me please.  My brother would say of me when he introduced me to people, "this is my little brother, he has an 'interesting and unusual' sense of humour"  - which meant, he's a savage, prepare to be offended.  

Did I say I like New Zealand?  Actually, I do, I want to go there one day and see all the stuff - assuming the'll allow me; not because of me, but because Peter Pan the Selfie man made us into terrible criminals by weeping and agreeing we are a nation of genocidal maniacs.  

And now it's time to go, because I am starting to so South...:o

Awww so no life Coach then? That's ok I still like you , even if you are the Grinch who steals girls dreams of finding a rickety rope bridge  out of  a swirling toilet bowl! You made my day, ❤ so Thank You Mr.Grinch🤣, can you feel your heart now? 💗 Just call me       Cindy Lou Who 😋😁

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OutOfSa
12 hours ago, Lizelle said:

:) actually, I was thinking of doing a post and asking for it to be pinned, called “Why Canada sucks and you have to move to New Zealand.” Figured that would be click-baity enough :)

It’s not so much that I think NZ is better than Canada (although I do), it’s that I can see that immigration is getting harder around the world, and I think it is criminal to tell someone that we all know has about a snowball’s chance in hell to get selected by a province to just keep the faith. If you just try a little harder and tweak your resume just a little more, then maybe the stars will align.

Meanwhile, the Rand is dropping in value, and countries around the world keep putting up more barriers to entry. By the time 3 years had passed and the person figures out that it’s never going to happen, all the people that told them to just keep trying will have moved on with their lives overseas, and that person is stuck with their thumb up their a**. And now they cannot move anywhere else.

People are hopefully coming here to get some honest advice. Giving them platitudes does nothing but harm.

( :) sorry Tammi, we seem to have hijacked your thread a little).

I'm sure Tammi won't mind if we hijack her thread a little more....:offtopic:

I hope this does not come off as an attack on Lizzelle, it's not intended to be, I promise...:)

I was thinking about what you said...  Firstly I'm glad to have someone put out their thoughts, as I've said before, the forum can be a little sterile.  What's the use of having a bunch of different people connecting if they all hold their peace.  I could not decide if you were referring to this content, or if it was a general statement about false encouragement?

You are 100% correct in your assertions, immigration is becoming more and more difficult everywhere (unless you just walk into Canada through Quebec - because 'Canada welcomes everyone' - terrorists included.) Canada is a incredibly frustrating place to try and get into and to get started.  The system stacks itself against you, yet, on an annual basis, ten's of thousands of new people not only succeed, but thrive. 

Perhaps I fail or am blinded by my own self importance, but I try not to encourage those that don't stand a chance of getting in. ....Enter people worried about getting a Maid before they have thought of anything else.  Experience tells me that these people are likely well-off and probably a little entitled.  Not because they want help, but because it's their primary worry.  People who are serious and are looking to make the move will be looking at what they need to do to get here - that is overwhelming at the start.  I can still remember those thoughts - "I'll never get through this..."

Hope and self belief are the most powerful tools a person can get.  I'm no motivational speaker, but there is no shame in sprinkling a little light on a fragile dream as it tries to break through the surface.  Everyone has a story to tell.  You (me) just need to shut up a while an listen and learn.  If we are quiet, we might learn something - and now I am going to ignore my advice and prattle on.

Why Canada and not New Zealand?  I had the choice - I research NZ, took many google "drives" around.  Here were my reasons:  My NZ emigrated friends said, "you need to like sheep :censored: to come here".   No, SS is not an issue.  New Zealand had everything I was looking for, good governance, safety and a huge amount of natural beauty.  What it didn't have was size.  It worried me that my children would be limited to a small amount of diversity (hate that word.)  A small amount of choice, relative to say Northern Americas. (USA, Canada and Territories.)  Canada is like several countries in 1.    Canada is 10 million sq km, and NZ is 269 000sq km, that means Canada is about 37 times bigger than NZ.  Granted, much of Canada is forest and frozen waste.  But none the less, there's a lot to see and do from east to west.  Many people many dialects and many, many opportunities.  Canada has massive reserves of most minerals and ores, the 2nd largest oil reserves in the world (stand under correction here), and the nutty USA to the south, which is the worlds biggest most aggressive 'free' economy (stand to be corrected here too.).   

For my part, I figure (if we can just get rid of that complete fool PETER PAN THE SELFIE TWIT) that Canada should be able to grow well into the future.  Eventually the countries energy needs and the Greens will work it out.  Simply:  People like luxury, iPhones heat and nice homes.  "Mommy told me I can have whatever I want, so I want it NOW!"  I know it's only a matter of time before the Zombie generation stop voting Green, because they'll realise (perhaps a little late), that if they vote away the industry that supports their addiction, it will be gone, and they can't have that.  OMG. I NEED MY STUFF, NOW !!!! It's inevitable then, as they start to lose their precious toys, they will fight back with a vengeance.  They'll throw tantrums just like they do now over Green things and wanting to be the MD of a company on the first day.  They'll vote for Industrialisation, so they can have their iPhones and cool cars....

A kid I interviewed recently said, "Nah, I don't think I'll like doing that...."  I used to say "Yes please, I'd love a job."  

So, back to my original line of thinking, Canada has Water, Energy and Minerals & can grow crops - when sanity prevails and industry returns to sense, the country can prosper.  Maybe it'll take 2 generations & no apocalypse - my kids' kids.  So potentially a secure future for them.  

NZ is much smaller, they are more dependent on the rest of the world, also, they are isolated.  And anyway, the sea is about to rise over them....NOT....If it were just me and my wife, perhaps it would be better suited.  

Now, in Tammi's case.... (Sorry Tammi - you might be in earshot!) .

Here we have a person that has the qualifications to be accepted - as in her husband.  Trades are sought after and definitely admissible.  The Ontario government is doing it's best to encourage kids to take trades.  They'll pay our company $1.47 for every $ we spend on an apprentice....  I am not an electrician (I started out as one - but moved on  and finished at university), but I am involved in the industry through aspects of my work. So, we have a trades person, with the will to get here and a call for a little encouragement.  As I say to my kids when they have a "disaster" - "I'm not seeing the problem here?"   

"Canadian employers are faced with the challenge of finding workers with few left among the ranks of the unemployed. In late 2016, there were slightly more than six unemployed Canadians per vacant job; today, there are just over three."  Too many people are retiring, it's a problem.  2016 - still much the same if not worse.

"My Husband is an electrician - qualified" - well, that's the key.  Everything else is just hard work.  Yes people come on the forum and say, "I have a degree in Basket Weaving" - and people say, "er...." .  Those are not the people most of us encourage.  The simple fact is, if you took a degree / trade and achieved a qualification that is relevant, then you use that tool to get you where you want to be.  There is a well known member who is super smart, she waited years to get in, nothing was happening - then suddenly they changed the rules and she resubmitted and is in her 7th year here and thriving.  Beating out a fantastic career.  If she'd given up, she'd still be in SA.   I know another young person that worked the system and despite all the odds has a PR and is here, these people are amazing role models and proof that smarts and determination can do a heck of a lot to get you where you want to be. 

A person can feel so alone when they are trying to go through this process, who do you turn to for support?  Who do you ask questions?  What are platitudes?  "You can do it if you try, even if you are a basket weaver"...  probably not, but, stranger things....

In SA I was once a little fella, with a beautiful young wife.  Innocent and naive.  We did not qualify for a bond, I worked for myself and was not great at it.  No killer instinct.  Yet, with a little ingenuity, we got a bond and paid it religiously from the days when the interest rate was 25%.  Some months we could barely eat, but we had our house.  I built that house, on a sand dune :whistling:,  with the help of some amazing Zulu brick layers.  They just worked and they were good at their trade.   They could have ripped me off, but they didn't they just worked.  Xhosa's on the other hand, well, my neighbour had loads of problems with them.  Different people.  We used to talk at night, my neighbour and me - "I wonder how it would be to have money?", he would say. We'd have coffee and then get back to angle-grinding the electrical conduits into the walls.  Every night until midnight for about 6 months.  Eventually we both had a house and the city gave us an occupancy certificate - something I did not even know about.  14 Years later, that house was a big part of being able to get here.  My neighbour is now the MD of a huge company, he lives in Germany and has a farm in SA.  It took him 25 years to become a MD, but there he is - and he knows what it's like to have money.  We arrived in Canada with suit case, a dog and a cat and a crate.  We did not qualify for anything.  No credit history, no driving record (only 4 years acknowledged), no bank accounts, no Cards. Did that stop us?  Nope, we worked an uber plan and bought a condo. We could not afford it, we should not have had it.  I miss the boat on many things, except stubbornness, so I just wore the system down and got what we needed.  Later, we sold and bought our house.  The system said we could not afford it and did not qualify... work around.....Once again, food was in short supply, the good thing is we were slim and trim then...not so much anymore.....

Seeds of hope and self belief - I knew nothing about building a house, or finance or managing a motley crew of builders.  I learned and I succeeded.  My business puttered on for 14 years and we had 2 little girls.  Those were dark years of depression and long hours.  Why my wife remained with me is a mystery.  But, here we are 27 years later in Canada, we both forgot our anniversary ! (So I didn't get into trouble.)   We have 2 grown up girls (a bunch of trouble), a house and many cars, and debt - and we wonder where the time went.  Do I regret any of it?  No, just the depression and the effects it has on my wife.

In 2010, I started with that pile of papers, my blood ran cold looking at what they wanted.  We did not really qualify.  I filled them out and was about to mail them.  That night, I re-read the manual again and realised "OH ******", we don't qualify, I did not understand the NOC codes.  What happens then despair, sadness, crushed spirit?  My sweet wife gave me some hugs and kisses and then said "Oh, I think my job has this description...." and it did.  And we applied under that code, and they accepted it.  Then there were letters from employers to get - (ah, don't burn your bridges! ).  2 more years passed - very slowly and one day the email came "send you passports". It was like I won the lotto.  6 Years later, is it the paradise I thought it would be..? No, probably not, but it's a life I am pretty happy with.  I consider myself lucky and privileged - I have a still beautiful supportive wife and two stunning girls who are succeeding here beyond my expectations.  Provide a little hope, support to seeding and they grow into complex and extremely confusing females.  Now days mom handles the girls, I shiver in terror in the corner most of the time, and the dogs growl at me.  Man splaining is not a good idea, or wanted.  The right thing to do is killer-death-mode personal assassination of the offending person.  My job is almost over, my time wearing thin - did I achieve what I set out to do? Yes, my kids have a bright future and more opportunity than I ever knew existed when I was in SA. My wife and I will one day find a little place and wait out the last years.  At least we are not likely to get attacked or butchered if we live in the woods - except, skeeter will suck us dry.

So, does Tammi have a chance?  Hell yes, they have the tools - hopefully the relationship to survive the upheaval and time.  That's all they need, oh, and a lot of tenacity.  I would not say to her I believed she could succeed if I did not think so.  I'm not in the habit of intentionally propping up dreams that will lead to tears.  Sideline is great at telling it as it is.  I've seen posts that basically say, "forget it kid".  And I respect those, Sideline tells it like it is.   STEP AWAY FROM THAT COMPUTER SIDELINE !

This is not a instance where success is not possible.

OK Tammi, you better succeed here - otherwise you're gonna make me look bad :D

Feel free to PM me if you want some private info, I don't have all the answers, but I have a few.  

I had to laugh, my brothers call me "the Grinch"  - funny how you hit it on the money !

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Lizelle
2 hours ago, OutOfSa said:

I could not decide if you were referring to this content, or if it was a general statement about false encouragement?

I meant it in general.  Not for this thread.  Sorry again, Tammi, I am not entirely sure how we got onto this on your thread :)  

In Tammi's case I did not say anything, since she has family here.  Although, Tammi might be interested to know that registration as an electrician in NZ is pretty much as easy as filling out the forms and waiting for a week or two, rather than the massively convoluted thing Canada has going :).  If you are looking at a 2 or 3 year wait before you can move to Canada, it might be something to consider to wait it out in NZ while making money there, and working in a country that Canadians can find on a map.  

My quibble is not really with Canada vs NZ in terms of countries.  When we were looking to move out of SA, Canada was our first choice.  But I was still studying, so we needed to have PR.  We did not have enough points for Canada to get PR immediately, and the job situation looked a bit iffy at that stage.  So NZ it was.  I cannot tell you how grateful I am for that studying bit that forced us to look at another country.  If it was not for that, we might have applied to Canada and waited for the next 5 years to get PR.  In fact, people that applied to Canada at the same time as we did to NZ only received their papers back after we had moved to NZ, got NZ citizenship, applied to Canada, got Canadian PR and arrived here.  

Yes, Canada may be a much better country for someone to live in.  That is not the question.  The question is, "Can you get in?"  And "How long will it take?".  For some people, if they have a business, or family situations, or something, 3 years wait may be perfect.  Or you may have just sold your house, and is sort of in between things, and now 3 years wait means that you have to sort of settle before you can move.  And now NZ sounds like a good in between place.  And you may get there and decide to stay.  Or you decide to go look at Oz.  

I have noticed on here the trend these days that people now just don't answer the person with the questionable points/and or situation.  Which I think is wrong.  Yes, it is their dream, and it sucks to have your dream trampled on.  But this is real life, and we are all grown ups.  I have started to look at sharing information with someone as something that I withhold purposefully or not.  What they do with the information is their responsibility.  Me deciding to share is my responsibility.  If I see someone at the last gas station for a very long time, and I know there's no sign telling them about it, and I see they are not filling up,  I think I should tell them that.  After that, they are welcome to listen or not.  It does not make one little bit of difference in my life.  But I think it is wrong NOT to tell them that.

I feel the same way on here.  Yes, the people came here to get info on moving to Canada.  But they are also, presumably, relying on the fact that we that have been through the system have information that they don't have.  South Africans tend to think about the immigration system as something that they can wrangle.  Boer maak 'n plan.  If this plan don't work, then we will finesse it that way, and see what happens. Where immigration can be a brick wall.  Or 1s and 0s.  It is or it is not.  There's no massaging it to make it fit your situation.  If you don't have enough points to have a reasonable chance at being selected in the next few draws, then you have to know that the pool keeps filling up.  It's not like the points just move down all the time.  Sometimes they do.  But is is more likely that next year the points will be slightly higher, not lower, given the amount of people that keep wanting to move to Canada. So, now you have a choice.  You can look at PNP.  And it is certainly something that someone much research.  Look at all the provinces, maybe they have a selection process that applies to your situation.  If you find nothing except for "You have to get a job offer", then you are most likely screwed.  

What the person makes with that information is up to them.  They may think that waiting 2 or 3 or 5 years to get into Canada is better than moving anywhere else.  Or it may sprout in the back of their head that maybe there are other choices out there than Oz.  I have no doubt that some beat the system and get in.  But that ignores all the others that did all they could, as much as they possibly could, and still did not get in.  Maybe they would have liked someone to have told them to look at NZ.  The person that took 7 years to get in.  Would she have been happier spending those 7 years in NZ?  Would she have been in a better position financially?  With better work experience?  For me it is not necessarily an either or situation.  Moving countries gets a lot easier the second time around :)  You can move on from New Zealand.  But first you have to get out of South Africa. 

You can wait it out, and try to beat the odds.  Be that one person that makes it to Canada despite the odds.  But from a practical standpoint, where will the Rand be 5 years from now?  What will your South African qualification be worth 5 years from now?  Or your work experience?  If a Canadian company received a resume for a position they are advertising from a person in South Africa, or a person in New Zealand, which one are they more likely to consider, even though they may look the same?

Plus, I think the fact that the Canadian economy is moving forward is entirely disconnected for the most part from immigration.  The fact that trades people are needed does not mean it is easy for a trades person to immigrate.  Or to register.  Or to convince someone to appoint you even though you don't have "Canadian Experience".  Once you are here and registered and have a job, yes, then life is good and you have choices.  But you have to get to that part. ( :) I just realized how many times I have said "blah, blah, blah, BUT blah blah blah."  )

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TammiM

Thanks both of you for your very honest and informative views!! Hijack away- us South Africans are used to it 😂

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Lizelle
12 minutes ago, TammiM said:

Thanks both of you for your very honest and informative views!! Hijack away- us South Africans are used to it 😂

Hehe.

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Flyfish

Hi TammiM

I really enjoy reading the posts by Lizelle and OutOfSA. I just wanted to add something from my experience of getting my PR 2 weeks ago through quite an interesting route through work permit-PNP-PR. We were lucky enough to do this within 2 years of loading our first EE profile.

From my experience the key to this whole process is research, research and more research. Oh and some more research. Make sure you have looked at all the avenues you can use to get here and then the hard work starts to get everything together and apply. 

It is not easy, but it is worth it. 

I have a brother in law in New Zealand and he likes it there, but I really like Canada and the space it has. It is also easier to travel other places such as the US and Europe.

All I can say is keep the faith and from looking at the info you provided it should be possible, but it will be hard and could be expensive as your husband may have to Canada to get his red seal certificate for Canada.

Good Luck.

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OutOfSa

I think that you wrote an excellent piece Lizelle - it's pretty much reality in a post.  I have only one point I disagree on (of course) - it's that the economic situation has no bearing on the selections.  The government changes the criteria from time to time based on the perceived requirements of the market place.  Right now the emphasis is on trades (as I understand it)  - so it's a good time for trades people. That's not to say it's a huge foot up or as you point out that the system can be massaged - it's as rigid as they come.  Its also worth keeping a look out for is these experimental programs that some provinces come up with from time to time.  

I think if you are young then NZ while waiting out Canada is a idea with a lot of merit - it's a means to increase your worth and experience.  And hey, NZ might just be the Jewel you did not think of.  

 

Why wouldn't the skeleton cross the road? 

He had no guts :D

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TammiM

@Flyfish Thanks for the reply!! Every bit helps. 

The thing is that we have 4 kids, 2 dogs and  2 cats as Well and a pretty good business here in SA. I think the thing that has stood out the most for me is how long they say it can take! Wowzers am I naive! I thought yeah by next year things will be sorted and we will be on our merry way- hahahaha ignorance is bliss I suppose😂. My brother and his family are in Ontario and is the one feeding me all these rose-coloured expectations. Well maybe I should keep wearing the rose coloured glasses , they may just keep the positive attitude going!! Thank you again, you are a star 😁

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TammiM

@OutOfSa I wouldn't mind going to NZ as a waiting point but all this moving is rather expensive and 4 young kids in tow , yikes! I will still look into it as SA is on its final turn down the toilet bowl, and this is all for our kids - Gov. Schooling in SA is not what it used to be and Private schooling well with 4 kids it's a rip!!

hopefully one day we will look back on this and just laugh and laugh,  me still with Rose tinted glasses on 🤭

Cindy Lou Who 

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