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Jossy

Family Physician hoping to return to Canada - Advice needed - Particularly regarding LMCC2

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Jossy

Hi all. Very long time lurker here.  I hope to give you some background info without disclosing too much personal info.  I am however, hoping to get some thoughts and outside perspectives on our situation.  As I have mentioned, I have been lurking for sometime and know that members on this forum are particularly knowledgeable and insightful,so here goes!

 

Hubby and I are now in our early forties (perhaps relevant info as to how this may influence our EE score and your subsequent advice).  We lived in Canada from 2000-2003 just after graduating - hubby is a medical doctor (GP/Family physician) and I am a psychologist (licensed clinical here in SA) but worked (having undergone supervision as required, some additional course work etc) as a school psychologist in Manitoba.  Hubby completed his qualifying exam and his LMCC 1 before we decided to come back to SA.  Looking back we can't quite remember whose decision it was primarily to come back - I recall it being made over a bottle of wine though LOL!  We were in a very rural but lovely, Northern community, newlyweds, isolated, homesick and primarily looking back - just perhaps didn't have the emotional maturity at the time to successfully navigate all of these aspects.  That being said, we have had a great personal and professional life here in SA and now have two happy and well-adjusted kids (11 and just turned 7).  Ironically, we both agree that if it were not for being in a good space presently, we would not be contemplating returning - if that makes sense, as we know first hand how challenging it can be - especially with 2 kids in tow this time!

Apologies for the novel - but some more info regarding our present situation may be helpful in any input or advice you might be able to provide.  Our experience in Canada has always remained close to our hearts and we had kept in contact with colleagues in the community over the years.  I have always had close contact with a number of my colleagues after all this time and consider some of them friends.  Fast forward to feeling restless, in need of adventure and the initial turmoil of the Fees Must Fall campaign here in 2017...and the community in Manitoba still struggling to meet the need for doctors.  Hubby was granted 12 months temporary registration again to practice medicine and take the LMCC 2 exam in order to obtain permanent registration.  A positive LMIA was obtained for Hubby and subsequently TRV's for all of us - an open work permit for me and study permits for the kids that will expire in 2022.  However, we had an exceptionally long wait on the visas - at the time the waiting period had gone from 8-12 weeks to over 20 weeks for a number of reasons.  In this time, the town/area having recently been included in the Northern recruitment program for physicians managed to secure the services of a number of new graduates which has been wonderful for the community.  However, this meant that our idea of spending most of the first year doing locum work in Canada periodically and taking the LMCC 2 was impacted.  We spent about 4 weeks back in Canada in Dec/Jan 2017/2018.  Both hubby and I worked in our previous capacities.  Faced with another judgement call as luck would have it - we decided (on agreement with the relevant health authority) to spend more time In SA and have hubby take the LMCC 2 before coming over permanently.  Hubby enrolled in the LMCC 2 and took the exam in October 2018, but did not achieve a passing score.  I have been back last year for about another 4 weeks to do some work for the school division due to high needs in the community.  So to summarize, presently we all have TRVs but are in SA and hubby will need to reapply for registration if he chooses.  However, when he was in Canada in October for the exam he visited with some very close, old university friends who had remained there when we came back, who are in practices in Alberta with a need for more physicians.  We are waiting to hear back from CPSA as to his registration eligibility, as am I with my Alberta licensing body.  Just recently however, a permanent position has become available for me in the school division that I have previously worked and they need to know ASAP as to whether I would be interested or if they should recruit and advertise the position, though hubby won't be able to work immediately again it seems.  So the ultimate question that I am posing to internet strangers is the following: do I go over and work and earn dollars, credit rating etc with our kids and submit our PR application from Canada? Any pros or cons that come to mind? Obviously, the emotional impact of being separated as a family for some time is on the foreground for us.  Any practical or legal pros or cons that you could point out that might guide our decision? Thoughts on whether our unusual TRV situation would count against us longer term? Wait out PR application in SA and potential re-registration for both of us in another province? Hubby and I both have further post grad qualifications that we would need to have assessed anyway for PR points - so still some paperwork in the pipeline either way.

 

If you have made it this far - thank you for reading. Hoping seasoned vets and physicians with advice may be able to give some input!

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Jules

Thanks for sharing so much info. I’m a firm believer that when a door opens in life then it’s safe to assume it opened for a reason. I would take the job offer and figure the rest out as you go along. 

Its that simple. We tend to overthink too many things and we complicate uncomplicated opportunities. You have a job offer in Canada - take it. 

🙂

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Lizelle
Posted (edited)

I agree with Jules.  Accept the job offer, and work it out from there.  There may not be positions available for your husband right now, but there is a serious need for GPs everywhere, so it would be a temporary situation.  

It is definitely not ideal family wise, but Skype and Facetime is amazing to help you through :)  

Edited by Lizelle

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Nelline

Not easy being separated, albeit temporarily, but others (including myself and my husband) have done it and looking back, the anticipation definitely was more stressful than the reality.

You'll work it out.

Come over and submit for PR from here. I don't see any cons

 

 

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Jossy

Thanks for the input so far. Does anyone think that we would have any issues returning to Canada with our documentation as is given that hubby isn't working presently (he was main applicant) and would join again later? 

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OutOfSa
Posted (edited)

It seems to me that your time to make a decision is limited, so you need to make one that allows the most possible flexibility. 

If you make SA only decisions and become excluded from Canada due to your age, that reduces alternatives.  If you have the desire to move here, losing that option will make it even more attractive, which will drive you nuts.  (i.e. if you miss the 2022 thing).

SA does not look like things are going to end well at the moment, especially for people that have children.   So I would think that if you want a secure future for them, it may be wise to get your foot back in the Canadian door and make sure it's firmly anchored there.  

And this is just garbage...... (except living without affordable energy, that's likely the way things are going - but sigh, better than load-shedding!)

Mind you, our current pretty-PM rivals Zuma at his finest - well no, he has great hair - so it's anyone's guess where Canada will be in 30 years  - I expect our kids will be scratching their heads wondering what the heck?!  While living in famine , smog and mud huts along the lake shore, because all the trees have been burned for heat as the price on carbon (sorry pollution because CO2, the basis of all life is of course pollution) has risen to stupidity and there is now a shortage of Carbon Dioxide, so crops are failing and only stunted trees grow.  A little research will show that we are actually living in a CO2 deficit (ooh!  familiar Canadian word! - You know the budget will balance it's self?!  Who votes for a person that says that?)

Ah, but there's just too much money in the CO2 religion for any common sense to prevail & out PM likes selfies and celebrity more than common sense.  Gotta keep them Audi's and VW's running in Brussels shipping Fat-wobbly-tummy-Cats back and forth to important meetings.....

It's mud huts vs rape and murder?

I think the mud hut might still trump (no pun intended) the African Murder Love Story.  

So in summary & MHO, don't let this one get away from you, because if you're in Canada you can always choose to go back - you know, pack your animal skins and leave - if you lwait, you might no-longer have the choice.  Immigration is all about sacrifices - strong relationship or not, it's going to place a hell of a lot of strain on you both.  The winners here are likely the kids - assuming they like camping and smog.  (And did I say 'absence makes the heart grow fonder').

 

Edited by OutOfSa
Fix some stuff...error....error

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Lizelle

From what I understand you have activated you visas already, correct?  I think it would only be a problem if you tried to activate your visa first before your husband.  But this may be a place to ask an immigration lawyer for a definitive answer.  None of the ones normally quoted on this pages fills me with confidence, I think it may be better to contact someone in Canada and ask.  Or go through the manual that comes with your paperwork and see if you can get an answer.

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OutOfSa

Ok, so I missed a few vitally important points there (probably all of them)....er...um.   But anyway, my thinking still stands - the earlier you can begin to set down roots the better.  Also, as a parent I can tell you that 11 (I've triple checked that!)  is just under under the age where integrating into a Canadian school becomes complicated for young-uns.   All manner teen angst will arrive soon - but then you know that because that's your thing. 

I watched my kids integrate and the younger one had a much easier time, which seemed to be the common thread with my year of immigrants. 

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milo23

Hi there.

So, my husband is a physician. Although a specialist so we had to go through the Royal College of physicians and surgeons. 

My sister in law is a family physician - they came over in 2008. And my husband’s brother and sister in law (both family physicians) are in the midst of applying for PR and the SIPPA program in saskatchewan. Seeing how things have become more and more difficult for SA trained physicians to come to Canada I suggest that if it’s really something you are considering now or say within the next 5 years that you do it sooner rather than later. 

They really are closing the door and making it more and more difficult and expensive to become registered as physicians despite the need in rural areas. 

Wearrived on work permits in July 2015 to a small town in west central SK. Applied for PR (EE) in January 2016.  Got ITA first draw And PR approved in July. PR activated 10 Aug and we’ve just applied for citizenship a few weeks ago. Really very easy from here as opposed to the strange waiting times that are coming out of SA at the moment. 

CPSS gave my husband 3 years to complete LMCC and challenge the Royal College exams (after us paying R40 000 to have his training evaluated by the RCPSC) He completed all requirements by May 2017. Although it’s not his ultimate job (he’s an emergency physician so obviously working in SA with the levels of trauma and violence he loved his job 🙈) and here due to the silver tsuanmi things are very different. 

My brother in law passed MCCQE II last year in the spring. (LMCC part 2). He flew over from SA to write and went straight back home. But they are still waiting for PR. Their 6 months was up in Feb but they received email stating that they are amongst 20 percent of candidates that are taking longer. 

Hope this gives you some inaighta but if it was me I’d say both of you come over together even if he isn’t working for a while. Ask to join the local residents who are prepping for MCCQE part 2. My husband did some prep with the family physician residents who were working under him (ironic) and he said it really helped to get some tips as the examination process is just so vastly different. 

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