Guest Joshua

Why Canada?

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Karen

Thanks, Debbie, and I must add that is was an absolute pleasure to meet and get to know you and your family. We look forward to seeing you in T.O. in the near future.

I must add that I hated Canada in my early years here and wondered daily what brought me to such a 'frozen wasteland', as I then called the country, but over the years, as acceptance grew, so did my understanding of the place and its people, and eventually I started to enjoy my life here. I knew that going back was not a real option, so I suppose that helped to make me dig my heels in and make a go of things, for better or for worse.

So, all I can say, is hang in there, try not to be too unhappy about being here and find humour in as many situations as you can. Laughter helps a lot, and so does finding friends who will support you over the worst of the bumps along the way to settling.

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greeffs

Ok ,now we have established that Karen and Georgie are well aquainted in Canadianisms can either of you or both please answer me this..

Why are canadians so reluctant to invite you into their homes?? We have lived for more than a year in our area , it is politely friendly ,but you never get past a casual chat on the driveway.

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creston

Oornooi

Begin deur die Kanadese, wat jy graag beter wil leer ken, na jou huis toe te nooi.

As hul van jou hou, sal hul jou nooi vir visvang, "curling" ens ens.

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Kolla

Greeffs, ek sien jy vra spesifiek dat Georgie en Kari jou moet antwoord, maar hiers my 2c ook. Soos ek die Kanadese rondom my bekyk, is hulle nie mense soos ons SAers wat lief is vir gaste oornooi en baie kuier by die huis nie. Ek sien regtig selde kuiermense se karre in hul driveways, ons het al in 4 huise hier in 3 provinsies gewoon in meer as 5 jaar hier. Hulle is nie so sosiaal soos ons nie, dalk is hulle op n ander manier sosiaal. Ek weet hulle neem graag kuiermense uit vir ete of gaan bv in die somer op n Sondag na een van die parke toe en kuier daar onder die bome saam maar gesellige kuiers by die huise sien ek regtig selde.

Ek stem saam met Kriegler, as hulle van jou hou nooi hulle ons verseker, maar dit gebeur nie so gereeld soos ons dit gewoond is nie. Ander ding, ek dink, kuiermense is werk vir hulle, onthou hier is nie hulpe nie, so die gasvrou en haar man en die kinders moet clean vir company, al die kos ens ook nog maak en daarna skoonmaak ook. En ek dink dis ook n issue as dit kom by kuiermense hier.

En as jy nuuskierig is oor hoe die bure se huise binne lyk, soos ekke was en seker nou nog is :-) wel dan nooi hulle jou ook om hul 'prized possesions' te kom kyk. Sommige van hulle se binneversiering kan erg 'kitch' wees, met baie clutter veral die ouer garde het hordes goed in die huis. Mind you na so baie garage sales waar ek al was, lyk my huis nou ook omtrent al so :-)

Terug by Why Canada ? Ons ken n familie in hul laat dertigs wat baie suksesvol in SA was en toe hiernatoe geimmigreer het. n Besigheid gekoop het en al hul bitter hard gewerkte baie SA geld ingestoot het en binne 2 jaar was al hul 'life savings' weg en moes hulle weer van onder af begin. Hulle was finansieel onafhanklik in SA en kon aftree en toe kom hulle hiernatoe en verloor als. Ek het hulle al hoor se dat party dae is hulle baie verbitterd oor hul ooit die besluit geneem het om dit wat hulle gehad het en wat so suksesvol in SA was, te verkoop en n nuwe lewe hier te begin. Nou ek kan dink as mens al kon aftree en jy kom hier aan en boer kwaai agteruit in n vreemde land, kan dit baie negatiewe emosies tot gevolg he. Tot so n punt dat mens baie verbitterd raak hier en jou dan seker baie dae die vraag afvra : Wat op aarde het ons besiel om na hierdie land toe te kom ?

Ons persoonlik het in die dae en maande voor Y2K op n werkspermit oorgekom. Die firma wat my man voor gewerk het, het kantore in klop lande gehad en ons kon kies tussen die UK, Kanada, Aus en Nieu Zeeland en het eintlik net n company transfer hiernatoe gehad met die opsie om weer terug te gaan SA toe. Dit was n baie vinnige besluit, hulle het baie dringend iemand hier nodig gehad ( ons het een aand laat hier in Kanada geland en die volgende oggend 10h moes hy al begin werk) Ons het binne 2 maande nadat ons begin dink het aan land verlaat, in Kanada aangekom. Behoorlik holderste bolder gewees.

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Georgie

Greeffs, I am going to answer your question as best I can. I can count on my two hands the times that we have been invited into Canadian homes here in Toronto. I must stress though, that I believe Toronto is unique in that it is not easy to make friends quickly. I have been told that it is much easier in the Prairie provinces and Atlantic Canada - I would think that BC is as well. Anyway, in my opinion the Canadians are outwardly friendly BUT on a superficial level. If you consider the diverse and plentiful number of things to do here, it makes sense that Canadians just don't have the time or motivation to invest in "making friends". Think about the proximity of the US and all it has to offer as well as the ease of travelling to Europe, then you have the summer festivals, the fall fairs, the winter sports and yes ...... they are busy people especially when you add housework (even though they don't often entertain in their homes, they are very house proud). It has been difficult for me, coming from a country where friendships are paramount to my happiness, but I do understand the reason for the unwillingness to suddenly make me their best friend!!!!

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Guest Derrick

If I may add my 2c worth too...

My experience is that Canadians are NOT SUPERFICIAL at all!

We lived in Oakville for 2 years before moving to Ottawa. In both Oakville and Ottawa we had no problems making Canadians friends. My wife and I made a point of trying to meet as many Canadians as possible. Through volunteer work and later real work, we met wonderful people who became good friends.

We have also found that most of our friends in the beginning were more inclined to meet at a restaurant or park than inviting us to their home. But we also said that, especially in the beginning, we did not have enough money to go out every time. They were all understanding and invited us into their homes.

I agree with the suggestion to take the initiative and invite them over. We did this to people living in our street when we moved to Ottawa.

It does seem as if people here are busier than in SA, especially those with kids. We do not have kids and found it more difficult to "connect" with those who have.

Anyway, I guess different people have different attitudes and expectations and experience things differently.

Derrick Smith

Ottawa

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Iza

So ongeveer 4 maande gelede het my man en 'n paar van sy Canadian kollegas gegaan vir 'n "pub lunch". Hulle begin hom uitvra oor dinge in SA en hoe die leefwyse is daar in SA. Hy praat sommer oor alles, die weer, die skole, politiek, vakansies en hy noem ook dat baie mense bediendes en tuiniers het wat elke dag inkom, en vertel ook wat die bediendes doen en dat ons hulle baie waardeur het.

Na so paar minute se stilte vra die een Canadian, as ons al die helpers gehad het in die huis en buite in die tuin, met wat het ons onsself dan besig gehou oor die naweke.

Hulle was baie verbaas toe my man sê dan ons gewoonlik gebraai het by vriende of na familie gaan kuier het of net sommer na 'n vakansie oord gegaan vir die naweek.

Party van die Canadians wou sommer net oppak en na SA toe gaan, hulle sê dit klink of 'n mens 'n bol van 'n tyd het daar. (hulle weet nie van die fynskrif om in SA te bly nie)

Dit is seker hoekom hulle nie sommer mense oornooi nie, hulle moet huise skoonmaak en tuinwerk doen oor naweke.

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greeffs

thank you one and all, you make me feel much better about myself., and let me understand a little better.

Kolla , the situation you describe is totally what we are experiencing and the feeling of bitter anger at possibly myself , is one i fight everyday.

an older (un PC ) canadian told me that quite frankly he was sick of immigrants and their lack of english skills and unwilingness to accept the canadian culture.WE laughed and laughed but I thought so why do you not take the trouble to teach me "the canadian way".I speak english.?

however we are not quitters and I will not be beat .(he says bravely and heads off to hide in the basement.)

Interesting comments derrick, the one family we have come across are from Moncton NB and are quite social animals.

thanks all

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Karen

Greefs, I have only just seen your question about Canadians not inviting you to their homes.

Well, it all depends who they are and where they originate. Torontonians are not generally given to having you over, but the Montrealeans I know are the most social people ever. Just like South Africans. They love entertaining, have good senses of humour and having made their own little 'semigration', they feel they can identify with us! Hogtowners are a bit more aloof about newcomers, but once you get to know them, they will happily come to your home! It's just the way they are!

Now, Greefs, you come out from that basement and into the sunlight. Be proud of your SA- ness and flaunt your accent! I have never lost mine in ten years, and I can tell you that the kids I teach and my colleagues still hang onto every word I say. They are absolutely fascinated and I have used it to my advantage.

When I think back to living in SA, I have to admit they we never asked any immigrants over either. The shoe is now on the other foot.

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miena

Just 2c re home visiting.

In Toronto (my experience), is going out together (economic and more time to relax and really talk). Once or twice a month, we as adult friends (not CAN, Chinese, Ukranian, Polish or SA...doesn't matter) makes a point of going to eat somewhere, watch a show or visit a flea market. I will suggest starting with asking your girl friend out for a coffee and soup after a volunteer activity. It grows from there and the funny thing is that you do not need to prepare anything, etc. and it can be impulsive and you might just actually enjoy that more than sweating for two days over an oven :lol: If it works then try and see if the men gets along, and next time do a foursome. Family events are normally only around special holidays.

Good Luck.

Oh yes, re Quebec, especially Montreal...why would you wanna visit when you could be sitting in "history"in downtown Montreal :rolleyes: just kidding..I would not generalize this. All depends on your relationship, etc. with who you know there.

Edited by miena

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Karen

To the Canadian who hates immigrants - well, all I can say is that he should be getting down on his hands and knees and thanking the Lord for us daily. This country would be nothing without the hard work of skilled people from all over the world who are working their butts off, often in jobs way below them, and who are contributing to the economy in ways the average Canuck cannot even imagine. If he/she does not approve of immigrants, let that person go and live in Nunavut, where he/she will feel like an outsider amongst the First Nations people, the true natives of Canada. Everyone else is really an immigrant, anyway.

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Guest Guest_guest

this is for greefs,

and a lesson for everyone i guess too,

if i were to visit sa and i were to notice my neightbours were not friendly, i wouldnt make the statement, "south africans are not friendly and dont invite me over to their house".

As immigrants to Canada, you should not lump all us born canadians together out of just your experiences.

greefs should just believe he has an unfriendly neighbour instead of an unfriendly country.

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greeffs

canadian born guest

I have re read my original posting.... and do not see the reference to unfriendly nor did I see anything that would suggest I found the whole country 'unfriendly'.on the contrary we have taken the trouble to travel extensively within canada to learn and understand ,so as not to make rash statements.

I just would like to know that there is a hope and that we will one day feel part of the community.

i farther have taken the trouble to ask people an opinion in order to make sure i understand the way things are done.

If hope you are attempting to offer the information in order to foster community building :lol: wonderful, if not............ :rolleyes:

oh and yes my one direct neighbour is horrible, all of us in the area agree(when we have sidewalk chats.)

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Karen

Well said. Of course you are quite right. There are many, many lovely friendly Canadians all over the country.

However, you have to understand where we are coming from. South Africans, are on the whole, very hospitable people. We think nothing of inviting people into our homes for a meal, take cakes etc to new neighbours, have friends stay over and are generally very welcoming and outgoing.

I live in a street in which there are about ten ex SA families. Our Canadian neighbours cannot believe how friendly we are - they just love coming over for BBQ's and sampling SA foods etc. Yes, we are good friends, but bar the folk from Montreal, the others have yet to invite anyone back into their homes. There is definitely a reservedness here in Toronto. Of course, I cannot talk about other places, and there is no doubt in my mind that people in smaller communties and places, would be very different.

Canadians are very decent and friendly folk. You just have to be lucky enough to meet and get to know them.

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Karen

Just to let you all know that I am finally back in the forum as myself - Karen. So, there will be no more posts from Kari, who is now Karen!

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Guest Guest_Dick

It has been very interesting to read the comments made here. I must say that I have had a very different experience. We have more Canadian friends than SA friends - and boy there are many of them here in Alberta.

We only speak to our one neighbour when we see them on the sidewalk taking out the garbage, but are very well aquinted with the other neighbour - even been into their house. They are both Canadian. It was the same case while living in SA. Many South Africans might be very happy-go-lucky come-into-my-house people, BUT man can they "skinder". As soon as you walk out the door they go yap yap this yap yap that. Not all SA are like that, but it seems that most of them tend to to it. The SA friends we have here are absolutely fantastic and the Candadian friends are a heaven-sent breed. Canadians don't seem to "skinder" that much. They do their own thing and don't care about what you do!

My life is anyway too busy, I don't have the time to worry about who wants to be my friend/friendly or not. If it happens it happens, if not, so what. Enjoy YOUR life and others (Canadian or South African) with the same likings will join you

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Harry

  • Kanada het relatief maklike immigrasie vereistes vergeleke met bv VSA & Australie..al voel dit altyd nie so nie
  • Die land het op regeringsvlak 'n absoluut positiewe drang om immigrante te lok..al lyk dit nie altyd so nie
  • Na 3 jaar kan jy aansoek doen om 'n burger van Kanada te word...dis gou, al voel dit lank
  • Dis goedkoper om hier aan die gang te kom as in Brittanje want Sterling is duur en die lewe daar is duur.
  • Sterk sosiale ondersteuningsstruktuur wat jou vang as jy struikel (lees maar hier rond)
  • Redelike goeie nasionale mediese stelsel ten spyte van al die kritiek (vgl VK)
  • Heel goeie regeringsskole (vgl VK en VSA)
  • Groeiende westerse ekonomie met lae inflasie en lae rentekoerse ("geld is goedkoop") (vgl SA)
  • Reg langs die VSA met al die besigheids en ekonomiese voordele wat saam met dit kom (vgl die wêreld)
  • Maklike toegang tot VSA as jy Kanadese burger word (voorheen selfs vir "landed immigrants"...tot 9-11)
  • Jou kinders is relatief veilig op skool (vgl VSA)
  • Vreeslik lae misdaad...kan met deur oop slaap op sommige plekke (Vgl VSA en SA)
  • "Frontiers"-gees wat Suid Afrikaners nogal verstaan (vgl VK)
  • Groot op buitelewe, net soos in SA
  • 'n kolossale land om te ontdek en weer mens te wees na die stress van die huidige SA
  • Suid Afrikaners voel welkom hier (vgl Australie) en word nogal waardeer, ten spyte van sommige pyne.
  • Die Kanadese is werklik gawe mense met meegevoel en respek vir hul medemens
  • Ek dink nie Kanadese verstaan eens die status vraag nie! Kom die vraag van Pretoria af!?:whistling:
  • Dis die plek om te wees as jy'n balans wil he tussen die voordele van die vryemarkstelsel en gesonde sosiale waardes.

Die prys wat jy betaal vir dit alles is:

  • Baie reels..hierdie manne het vorms vir alles wat roer...en 'n ou wat Frans kan praat om dit te "file"
  • Political correctness....groot probleem vir SA mense wat glo eerlikheid en opregtheid = reguit praat
  • Siels-pynlike diplomasie....maar jy leer hulle naand verstaan en lees tussen die lyne..maar dit bly 'n pyn.
  • Unies wat jou lewe beduiwel...maar hulle maak niemand dood nie

...dit voel soos 'n relatiewe goeie "deal" vir my.

...sal ek aangaan? As 'n mens die telkaart optel, is ek seker Kanada wen loshande

Harry

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Guest Guest_Engela

Kannie slaap nie en kom loer toe wat aangaan op die Forum!! Ek dink Harry verduidelik baie goed vir diegene wat wonner hoekom hier soveel ex-S.Afrikaners is. Ek stem met hom oor elke genoemde punt saam. Jou eie gesindheid maak natuurlik dat jy of swem en of sink en dit is die grootste deurbraak op die einde van die dag of jy hier gaan aanpas en of jy terug sal trek S.Afrika toe. Hierdie was al vir sommige mense 'n baie moeilike een en moes hulle ongelukkig 'n slag terugtrek en WEER terugkom Kanada toe om behoorlik aan te pas. My hart gaan gewoonlik na sulke mense uit, maar dan is hulle vasberade om die knoop deur te haak hier en gaan dit ook dan goed met hulle! Ek waarsku mense gewoonlik oor hierdie puntjie van groot belang en ja, die status-vraag was beslis 'n goeie een. Ek vind die Kanadese (maak nie saak hoe suksesvol) sal jou nie sommer laat agterkom hulle ry diese kar en woon in daai duur omgewing en kinders is in hierrie belangrike, private skool en ditse privaat klubs ens nie - hulle praat daarvan asof gewoon en ons is maar die mense met die chip op die skouer en tog sooooo (ekself lekker skuldig hoor) moeilik om die ou gewoontes af te dooi! Om 'n voorbeeld te gee - (dis geskrywe op ons gesigte) ek en my man het verlede week vasgesneeu by die lughawe in Moncton, New Brunswick en moes 'n nag met 13 ander Maritimers deurbring by die lughawe. Lekker gekuier en mekaar goed leer ken. So, toe ons die volgende middag besluit om 'n bus te neem Halifax toe omdat ons 'n beter kans gehad het om daarvandaan 'n vlug terug Toronto toe te kry, vertel een ou dat hulle ons nou baie geniet het en dink ek (ja ekke) hulle almal die meeste verras het! Hulle het almal agter my rug gedink ek moet 'n groot snob wees en sal seker 'n pyn op een of ander stadium word en gelukkig (vir my) kon ek hulle verkeerd bewys. Ek is seker nou lank genoeg in Kanada om die skille af te gegooi het - ek was per slot van sake die een wat die kantien (wat reeds gesluit was) bestorm het en mooi gevra het hulle moet dit asb vir ons oopsluit sodat ons proviant vir die nag kan he! Niemand anders wou dit doen nie, want hulle was seker te ordentlik........ .

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Eugene

waarom Kanada? want ons kon nie in Amerika inkom nie. gebruik dus Kanada tydelik tot ons wel in Amerika kan inkom.

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Guest Gerhard van Vuuren

Eugene ;

You gotta be kiddin!

Canada is n 1,000 x beter as VSA.

Kanada was my 1ste keuse bestemming.

Sal nooit Kanada veruil vir VSA nie.

Het al in die VSA gewerk.

USA = Wonderful, but cannot be compared with Canada.

PS = It is not about the money.

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Cathy K

Baie dankie Hendie. Dit sal my leer om eers bietjie rond te kyk voordat ek aan die praat raak.

Mnr Potgieter stel baie belang in ons Suid-Afrikaners in die buiteland, maar soos so baie ander dink hy net KOUE as hy aan Kanada dink. Suid-Afrikaners kan verstaan as mense na Australië toe emigreer, die klimaat is bekend en dis darem aan dieselfde kant van die wêreld as Suid-Afrika.

Om een of ander rede lyk Kanada nie vir hulle na 'n aantreklike opsie nie. Ek het bietjie verduidelik van ons heerlike somerweer en effe uitgebrei oor die winter aktiwiteite.

In Suid-Afrika het ons ons styf toegewikkel en gebid dat die winter moet verbygaan. Hier gaan die mense hulle ski's na en slyp die lemme aan hulle skaatsskoene! Ek weet nie van een mens wat nie voluit in die winter instorm nie. Dis dan wanneer baie hengelaars wakker skud en jagters hulle gewere olie. En dink net aan al die lekker feesdae, arme kalkoene!

Miskien dink die Suid-Afrikaners ons vrek van die koue omdat hulle nie van "thermal windows" en sentrale verhitting in huise weet nie. Ek het baie kouer gekry tydens 'n Hoëveldse winter.

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Guest Guest_Engela

Amerika sou vir ons ook die aangewenste besluit gewees het, want ons het daar geswot, het Amerikaanse kwalifikasies en vriende met die regte kontakte wat ons sommer tjop-tjop in die land sou kon kry, maaaaar........ Kanada was die droom en nou is ons hier en ja, geen kwadegevoelens - Amerika is 'n fantastiese land en ons sal vir altyd lojaal bly. Ek bly hier teenaan die grens, ons het nog wonderlike vriende daar en gaan gereeld kuier en ons seun het 'n Amerikaanse nooi! Jy gaan bly waar jy geroepe voel en dis daar waar jy jou ankers uitgooi, reg!?

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Works_With_No_Pants
Come over for a month. Then ask yourself the same question!

I've been here for 5 months and I still don't know why I'm here :P

I never left SA because of the crime rate or the murders or the cost of living or the jobs or the black versus white issues. I left SA with a very well paying job @ Damelin as a Computer Engineering Lecturer to come to Canada to be unemployed. Not my idea of fun. I have pretty much done everything I can to find an IT job short of working @ Macdonalds. I have a 1 year return ticket, I'm giving it another 6 months and if I don't have anything (a career) by then I'm flying back (living on savings is not a good thing). Apologies for sounding negative but this is the reality, some things work out for some people and for others not.

But to answer the original question, I truely don't know the answer, as I said previously the crime rate and ALL the so called negative things about SA have never phased or worried me or ever been a considering factor. I guess if you hate the country then nothing will change your mind but that's just not the case with me.

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Harry

This to greatSAd00d:

I'm really sorry to hear that things have not worked for you so far. We are two professional scientific types in the family and one of us had to struggle for 7 months recently in getting a renewed contract job. Another ex-SA high tech friend struggled longer. Now things are on a more even keel for both parties. However, I know how mindwrenchingly tough this is.

If you'll allow me, and not take offence, what I can tell you, is that:

1. I would caution you about believing up front that it is not going to work out....a selffulfilling prophecy. If you get depressed about it, it is going to start showing in your interviews. B-i-i-ig problem.

2. At the risk of sounding philosphical.....Returning on one's steps in one's life are almost always a bad thing.....The way forward is in the direction you are going, not the direction you are coming from.

Having had a solid insight into what has been happening at management level in the SA technology world, I most certainly would not go back there in a million years! I'd be happy to be more specific in an e-mail. All the high tech guys I know there want out. You have the benefit of already being here. They are praying for the opportunity you have...but you want to go there. What is it you know about SA that all of them do not?

In SA it is rather easy to be a Big Fish in the small pond of that country. Here the competition is stiff. However, when the inevitable future realities of SA force you to leave there anyway, you will actually be a very basic fish with no experience in the "pond" that counts. Then you will bitterly regret going back there in 2004 to feel better in that small pond.

Also, SA is seriously prone to boiled frog syndrome...you do not notice how things slowly go to pieces around you...and when you wake up..it is too late. I almost was for me and my family.

This is really tough stuff..I know, but PLEASE do not give up....I just know you'll be making the pivotal mistake of your life....and you will never forgive yourself.

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Guest Derrick

According to surveys, very few people leave SA because of political reasons. Most (nearly 70%) leave because of crime. Others leave because of a better life style, better education for their kids, or to study or for career reasons, or to join famaly already here. Many times people leave for a combination of reasons.

Surveys also show that 49% leave with the plan to probable return to SA in the future. 34% leave, planning never to return and 17% leave undecided whether they will return or not.

People also leave because the global village makes it easier to leave than 20 years ago, just like people move within SA too.

Canada is a logical destination, because it offers everything SA cannot (low crime, better lifestyle, work opportunities, etc.) It is mostly English speaking with a similar culture to English speaking SA's. It is a 1st world country with great opportunities. It is also relatively easy to emigrate to Canada. Australia, UK, New Zealand and to a lesser extent, USA are popular for the same reasons.

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