LotzofTravel

Using Bitcoin to transfer money

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LotzofTravel

Hi BitCoin experts.

I am fairly new in the Bitcoin game and bought a "bit of a Bitcoin" on the Luno trading platform.

Now suddenly I realised that it would/could/should be possible to transfer my ZARS to CADS via Bitcoin and (depending on my timing) I could save some significant rands on trading fees.

My assumption is as follows: 

- open a wallet with a trading platform in ZA, buy bitcoins (or make sure there is money available to buy).  (done)
- open a Canada bank account and link it up to a Canadian Bitcoin trading platform (can be done next week during my landing trip -whoohooo)
- wait for a quiet time on the trading market (or a upwards cycle) and send "Me-SouthAfrica" some bitcoin to "Me-Canada"

Voila. ??

But Luno does not trade in Canada.  As I said I really am a newbie, so for me it seems that I need to buy Bitcoin on a trading platform that trades in both countries, but now I am stuck.  So far my googling told me that in ZA there is only Luno and IceCube to trade on.  But theses articles are two years old so I am sure it is possible.  Would I be able to buy my coins on Coindesk/Coinbase/Kraken/Bitpay - seems like these ones does trade in Canada.

Any advice / direction into articles I can read that will be helpful will be sincerely appreciated.

 

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SunshineGirl

@Zealan, perhaps you could shed some light on this one? 

Thanks in advance!

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JeffH
1 hour ago, LotzofTravel said:

Hi BitCoin experts.

I am fairly new in the Bitcoin game and bought a "bit of a Bitcoin" on the Luno trading platform.

Now suddenly I realised that it would/could/should be possible to transfer my ZARS to CADS via Bitcoin and (depending on my timing) I could save some significant rands on trading fees.

My assumption is as follows: 

- open a wallet with a trading platform in ZA, buy bitcoins (or make sure there is money available to buy).  (done)
- open a Canada bank account and link it up to a Canadian Bitcoin trading platform (can be done next week during my landing trip -whoohooo)
- wait for a quiet time on the trading market (or a upwards cycle) and send "Me-SouthAfrica" some bitcoin to "Me-Canada"

Voila. ??

But Luno does not trade in Canada.  As I said I really am a newbie, so for me it seems that I need to buy Bitcoin on a trading platform that trades in both countries, but now I am stuck.  So far my googling told me that in ZA there is only Luno and IceCube to trade on.  But theses articles are two years old so I am sure it is possible.  Would I be able to buy my coins on Coindesk/Coinbase/Kraken/Bitpay - seems like these ones does trade in Canada.

Any advice / direction into articles I can read that will be helpful will be sincerely appreciated.

 

You are correct :-) and good thinking! 

There is one catch though. Typically, if you want to use Bitcoin in Canada, the average joe uses Coinbase and they do not support selling bitcoin here. You need to look at someone like MyBTC - I haven't used them to cash out BTC but I have used them to buy back in the day. It's linked to your bank account and uses Interac e-transfer. So the catch is that they will want you to verify your address and phone number and other details. They call you for this. Not impossible, just tricky.

You will also face limits from most providers on the max amount you can sell / withdraw. Maybe someone else can point out a platform with no verification or limits and fair conversion rates (part of bitcoin is let's call it "flexible" conversion rates - you do need to shop around or you will get just as screwed as using the banks). 

That said, the best thing to do is to buy bitcoin and hold and hold and hold... but as using it to transfer money from A to B it is great but in this instance your bank may be easier. Once you have accounts set up on both ends and have tested it, deposit in ZAR say R1000 and convert to CAD on the other side via BTC - then I'd say you could go for it. 

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Lizelle

I bought my bitcoin in Canada on Quadrigacx (https://www.quadrigacx.com/)

I moved it around a bit, and last week moved it back into Quadrigacx and had it paid out into my bank account for no fees (took about 3 days to get into my account).

So, you can definitely do it.  Buy your bitcoin on your exchange, move it to your wallet, and then once you have a Canadian account, move it to Quadrigacx and have it paid into your bank account.

I can't find the specific page now, but I want to remember that my limit on the withdrawal that I picked (because it has no fees)(direct bank transfer) was $20 000

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Lizelle

Also, once you have Bitcoin, sending it from one place to another is really easy (it's not longer attached to SA, or any other country, for that matter).  Get a wallet app for your phone. Money on the trading platform is not in your possession, and is a prime target for a hack.  Wallets on your phone may still be hacked, but the chances go down significantly.  

 Mycelium ( https://wallet.mycelium.com/ ) and Bread (https://breadapp.com/) is apparently very secure (I have Bread and it works really nice).  Bitcoin is not attached to anything (so sending it from place to place has no restrictions). You pay a fee (a few bucks, from what I remember now) for every move.

Once you buy your Bitcoin on the trading platform, move it out of that to your wallet.  Now you can move your Bitcoin anywhere you want.

Poloniex is the trading platform that I used in the US.  I bought my Bitcoin on Quadrigacx, then moved the Bitcoin to Poloniex, traded a bit there, then moved it back to Quadrigacx to sell some and get the money paid out.

I did want to use Kraken, but they took forever to verify my account (I think it is verified now, but I never used it for trading).  You can fund Kraken and Poloniex from your credit card, I think, but I found the fees that you pay were a lot higher than if I simply used Quadrigacx (I did a bank cheque transfer - took about 10 days, I think.  The actual bank for Quadrigacx sits in Singapore I think).  You can trade in CA$ on there, but also US.  

Edited by Lizelle
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Jules

Isn' there are huge risk if you buy bitcoin and its value tanks? A lot of reports I'm reading is saying that bitcoin values has all the markings of a bubble ready to pop.

(I'm no expert. Just asking)

 

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JeffH
3 minutes ago, Jules said:

Isn' there are huge risk if you buy bitcoin and its value tanks? A lot of reports I'm reading is saying that bitcoin values has all the markings of a bubble ready to pop.

(I'm no expert. Just asking)

 

Depends how long you hold it. Not much different to the ZAR exchange rate which can also drop 10% in a day - Sorry, I had to.... 

The flipside is also true. You could buy and sell the next day and make 10% which covers the fees easily. 

Don't believe everything you read on the Internet regarding the Bitcoin bubble.. they were saying that when it passed $1000 and will keep saying that since they did not buy :D

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K&U

Maybe a silly question (but I know nothing about bitcoin): does buying bitcoin also fall within the discretionary allowance of 1million that one is allowed to take out per calendar year? Or is that a completely standalone thing?

Trying to see how I can move a touch more money now, before the potential downgrade (which is scheduled to be this month still - so no time for tax clearance etc.)

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Piper

I don’t know much about this topic, BUT Bitcoin has made my life and our immigration to Canada a heck of a lot easier and warmer ..... ! My husband has been trading for almost a decade ... 

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Lizelle

I am going to guess that it does not count, but I am not sure.  My logic goes more to the point of what the government knows than anything else.  To move your 1 million Rand out you need approval to buy other currency. 

I am going to assume that you do not need any approval anywhere to buy Bitcoin.  

Canada has no limits on how much money you can bring in or deposit, so you will have no issues transferring the Bitcoin into your account on this side

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Sav

Thanks Lizelle for Bread app advice. 

 

 

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Zealan
On 11/6/2017 at 5:46 PM, Lizelle said:

Get a wallet app for your phone. Money on the trading platform is not in your possession, and is a prime target for a hack.  Wallets on your phone may still be hacked, but the chances go down significantly.  

But then you run the risk of your phone breaking, getting stolen, etc. Not something I would risk my life savings with.

 

On 11/7/2017 at 12:31 AM, Jules said:

Isn' there are huge risk if you buy bitcoin and its value tanks? A lot of reports I'm reading is saying that bitcoin values has all the markings of a bubble ready to pop.

(I'm no expert. Just asking)

Quite correct, but it is extremely unpopular to make anyone aware of these risks.

On 11/7/2017 at 12:37 AM, JeffH said:

Don't believe everything you read on the Internet regarding the Bitcoin bubble.. they were saying that when it passed $1000 and will keep saying that since they did not buy :D

The threat surface to cryptocurrency is enormous. The "Bubble" just speaks to a potential drop in perceived value. 

 

On 11/10/2017 at 2:30 PM, K&U said:

Maybe a silly question (but I know nothing about bitcoin): does buying bitcoin also fall within the discretionary allowance of 1million that one is allowed to take out per calendar year? Or is that a completely standalone thing?

Regardless of how you do it, moving money out of the country needs to be disclosed to SARS. I would wager most people who use the BTC route will not do this. Hence they are committing fraud, since they are bypassing the countries tax laws(yes, according to SARS, gains made on cryptocurrency is taxable and should be disclosed). The reserve bank has approved channels for cryptocurrencies, which I would assume are in place for taxation purposes. If I assume you want to do it the legal way, you would need to disclose that the money is leaving.

 

On 11/11/2017 at 2:13 AM, Lizelle said:

My logic goes more to the point of what the government knows than anything else.

Isnt that usually the case with fraud?

 

@LotzofTravel To answer your question, it really depends on what risk you are willing to take. It can be done. Bare in mind that those that know what they are doing with any form of trading, will mitigate their risk by spreading their investment across multiple platforms (or cryptocurrencies, in this case). Such traders are prepared to lose their investment, based on their strategy to minimise losses. I personally would not want to risk my life savings by putting it all in BTC, even for a short period.

 

I suspect this post will be very unpopular. YOLO. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Zealan

PS. One more thing, the wording in the reserve banks regulations surrounding cryptocurrency sounds very much like they have classified it as gambling (which is why it is against the law to use a credit card or debit card for crypto transactions). While not explicitly defining it as gambling, take note that online gambling is against the law in RSA.

SARB requires transactions to be done with a SWIFT code. IE. Through the SWIFT core banking system, you can make payments to your exchange(finding an exchange that accepts SWIFT payments may be a bit of trouble). The government will therefore know about the transaction. This also means you would be incurring the mandatory SWIFT fee of ~R250 per transaction. 

Edited by Zealan

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FaithFUL

Following this with interest! My hubby just bought of a bitcoin & he had to FICA the account that he was using (Luno). I would imagine that it would form part of your R1m allowance as the banks/ SARS would be able to track the money going into Luno but can't get their paws once you've bought bitcoin as you can move it to other wallets/ accounts.

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