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Briwer

Education qualifications, BSc. + BSc.(Hons)

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Briwer

Good day all, 

We are on the brink of submitting our PR application. I'm collecting the last documents tomorrow!

My question is regarding an Honours degree. I have sent my BSc. degree as well as my honours degree for WES evaluation, and they returned it saying I have the equivalent of a Bachelor's degree (three years) and bachelor's degree (four years). However, as you know the honours degree is only one year of study and it shows just that on my transcripts, whereas in Canada, they have a four-year degree (honours), which I think may have confused WES.

When I fill in my education in the application, how should I do it? With the level of education, I selected the 'one-year programme at a university, college, trade or technical school, or other institute', as this is what it was, but at the second question on the level of education, it refers to the ECA. which option should I choose, or should I leave my honours degree out entirely?

 

Anyone with these qualifications that can help my out?

 

 

WES report.PNG

Level of education.PNG

Level of education ECA.PNG

Edited by Briwer

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MaryJane

Good day @Briwer

Take a look at this thread and see what you can find out - 

I hope it clarifies a few things.

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Briwer
1 hour ago, MaryJane said:

Good day @Briwer

Take a look at this thread and see what you can find out - 

I hope it clarifies a few things.

 

Thank you for the thread! Luckily I'm the dependent so I'll just remove my honours degree as it is just 1 point and write a LOE for it. Hoping it all works out!

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LidiaS77

Here is our experience: my husband and I each have a three-year BIS degree and a one-year BIS (Honours) degree. We sent all of these to be evaluated by WES and it also came back saying that we each have one three-year and one four-year degree. I did a lot of research and could not find a clear, unambiguous answer about which option to select under qualifications. I ended up emailing WES asking about this and they replied saying "Yes, these are seen as two degrees; one with 3 years and the other one with 4 years Bachelors degree.". In our Express Entry application we selected "Two or more certificates, diplomas, or degrees" for both of us (we do not have other qualifications). This was accepted and we received our Permanent Residence without any problems. I feel that if the organization that is supposed to evaluate qualifications say that it counts as two degrees then it should be accepted in the EE application (like it was for us), otherwise what is the point? Also, when looking at the definition of the "Two or more certificates, diplomas, or degrees" option the three year degree and one year Honours still satisfy the conditions since the first degree is three years and the Honours degree could be "one-year of graduate study with a focus in [area of concentration]". It also does not say in the definition that the second degree or diploma cannot be related to or dependent on the three year degree. We also received two degree certificates and attended two graduation ceremonies.

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Zealan

I also have a BSc, with Honours. Received PR. 

My story is the same as @LidiaS77's.

However...

1 hour ago, LidiaS77 said:

Also, when looking at the definition of the "Two or more certificates, diplomas, or degrees" option the three year degree and one year Honours still satisfy the conditions since the first degree is three years and the Honours degree could be "one-year of graduate study with a focus in [area of concentration]". It also does not say in the definition that the second degree or diploma cannot be related to or dependent on the three year degree. We also received two degree certificates and attended two graduation ceremonies.

Not true, its there. According to the definitions on CIC, our honours degrees(which are usually a 4th year of the major from the BSc[but not always]) are equivalent to Canada's 4 year specialisation degree, and are therefore equivalent to one four year degree. This is the result returned by both University of Toronto(my own), as well as ICAS(an acquaintance of mine). Due to this, I resubmitted my degrees to WES, to get the more favourable result of "one three year and one four year".

I believe WES is incompetent, and either arent following the rules, or arent evaluating degrees thoroughly enough. In any case, their consistency has helped an awful lot of us achieve PR by claiming "Two or more degrees".

Edited by Zealan

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Wolverine
1 hour ago, Zealan said:

I also have a BSc, with Honours. Received PR. 

My story is the same as @LidiaS77's.

However...

Not true, its there. According to the definitions on CIC, our honours degrees(which are usually a 4th year of the major from the BSc[but not always]) are equivalent to Canada's 4 year specialisation degree, and are therefore equivalent to one four year degree. This is the result returned by both University of Toronto(my own), as well as ICAS(an acquaintance of mine). Due to this, I resubmitted my degrees to WES, to get the more favourable result of "one three year and one four year".

I believe WES is incompetent, and either arent following the rules, or arent evaluating degrees thoroughly enough. In any case, their consistency has helped an awful lot of us achieve PR by claiming "Two or more degrees".

 

Agree with everything you said, especially the last line.

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LidiaS77

@Zealan Since I have a separate degree certificate and had a separate graduation ceremony for my three-year BIS degree I cannot see why this cannot be interpreted as a three-year Bachelors degree, with the one-year Honours as an extra year on top of that, for which I also have a separate degree certificate and had a separate graduation ceremony. There are similar degrees/diplomas/courses in Canada that are also only three years long and my three-year degree could be seen as equivalent to that. My Honours degree was not really a specialization course but rather a more in-depth study of the various subjects covered in the three-year course and I cannot see that it says that the additional degrees can not be related to or dependent on the three-year degree. I do agree that it is not really a three and four-year degree, but even then it can be argued that the Honours degree ran concurrently with the three-year degree and included the same study material for the first three years but only concluded one year later, making it a four-year degree. All of this can and has been interpreted in different ways.

Edited by LidiaS77

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Zealan
12 hours ago, LidiaS77 said:

Since I have a separate degree certificate and had a separate graduation ceremony for my three-year BIS degree I cannot see why this cannot be interpreted as a three-year Bachelors degree, with the one-year Honours as an extra year on top of that, for which I also have a separate degree certificate and had a separate graduation ceremony

It is irrelevant how many graduations you attended or how many distinct certificates you have, the point of the ECA isnt to validate your countries' degree structure. The point is to compare it to a Canadian equivalent, and in Canada, there is no such thing as an Honours degree. Their four year degree with specialization(IE. One degree) is exactly what our 3 year degree + Honours is. Our degrees are structured around a major(or two) of three years for a base degree, and the honours is usually done in one of the majors(Essentially, a specialization). 

It is possible to do an honours degree in an alternate field, this scenario would make more sense as the "Two degrees" evaluation for ECA since it isnt a specialization in the base degree.

12 hours ago, LidiaS77 said:

My Honours degree was not really a specialization course but rather a more in-depth study of the various subjects covered in the three-year course

In other words, a specialization of your previous subjects. Semantics.

 

12 hours ago, LidiaS77 said:

I cannot see that it says that the additional degrees can not be related to or dependent on the three-year degree.

I cant remember where I saw it now, it doesnt explicitly say so on CIC anymore. My acquaintance that applied through ICAS got his PR application rejected for this very reason. It is suspicious however, that two ECA assessors reach the same conclusion, and a third reaches an alternate conclusion. Maybe 20 business days isnt enough to adequately assess credentials in volume(as is the case with WES), and the 3-5 months UT and ICAS take is more realistic.

 

In any case, we both got PR due to whatever happened in the pipeline. I am 100% sure that if I submitted my UT assessment, I would have been rejected. Water under the bridge now.

The key takeaway for anyone applying with bachelors degree plus honours, is to use WES.

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Nettie

The typical undergraduate degree here is 3 years (excluding some professional degrees). We do have honours, then Masters, like SA. It is in the US where all Bachelor's degrees are 4 year programs and then straight into Masters.

https://www.uottawa.ca/understanding-your-undergraduate-program/

The assessment will be about which courses you took and how many credits you obtained, not necessarily the length of the program.

@Briwer Put 4 years there, because you studied 4 years. 

Edited by Nettie
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Kaeli

Just to add another case to the conversation -- my partner has a BSc and BSc (Hons) in Computer Science. We submitted to University of Toronto as two separate degrees, but the response referred to them together as one four-year Bachelor's degree, which is what we selected for EE: "Bachelor’s degree or other programs (three or more years) at a university, college, trade or technical school, or other institute." Fortunately the points required for ITA fell while we were in the pool, so it was enough.

I do agree, though, that the onus is on the ECA services to correctly categorise our degrees. If WES have said that they count as two degrees, @Briwer, you are well within your rights to claim points for "Two or more certificates, diplomas, or degrees" and refer to the ECAs for both undergrad and Honours.

If CIC has an issue with the competence of their recommended ECA providers, that is for them to handle with WES.

Edited by Kaeli
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Briwer

@LidiaS77, @Zealan, @Wolverine, @Nettie, @Kaeli, thank you for all your replies. We decided to remove my honours degree from my educational background and just add it in my personal history just to be safe. I do agree that this is a big problem with WES and it needs to be sorted out. We added in the LOE the reason why we removed it, but still submitted my honours degree certificate and the full WES report with the LOE to show that I did, in fact, complete the degree.  

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