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What is considered a middle class family salary in Canada?


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#1 freddy

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 03:32 PM

Hello all,

Out of curiousity I want to ask the house what is the definition of middle class family in Canada in terms of salary? Your response will be appreciated.

Edited by freddy, 30 July 2012 - 03:33 PM.

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#2 Trevor&Anelle

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 04:06 PM

So much depends on where you live (remember how HUGE Canada is). Cost of living ranges incredibly depending on where you live. To me this needs to be taken into consideration when you talk about "middle class". What we have also found is that the whole "income/class" thing is not big here. We have friends where the husband is a janitor at a school, wife is a SAHM and they live quite well. Don't have loads of extra cash for overseas holidays, etc, but they are not poor by any stretch of the imagination.

#3 Jules

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 04:09 PM

Boy oh boy that's a tough one. Way too many variables. Real estate is your biggest asset and monthly expense. Compare Vancouver to a small East coast town: one could spend $40,000 a year (post tax dollars) on "average" housing and the other spends $12,000. For the same house. Your downpayment has a huge impact too.

Overall cost of living varies city to city plus one's definition of middle class. To one working person spending $15 a day on coffee and lunch is normal and necessity - another sees it as a luxury. Childcare costs are VERY expensive: middle class for a no children family looks different to the 3 child family. Etc etc.

#4 freddy

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 04:30 PM

Boy oh boy that's a tough one. Way too many variables. Real estate is your biggest asset and monthly expense. Compare Vancouver to a small East coast town: one could spend $40,000 a year (post tax dollars) on "average" housing and the other spends $12,000. For the same house. Your downpayment has a huge impact too.

Overall cost of living varies city to city plus one's definition of middle class. To one working person spending $15 a day on coffee and lunch is normal and necessity - another sees it as a luxury. Childcare costs are VERY expensive: middle class for a no children family looks different to the 3 child family. Etc etc.



@so you are saying that chunk of ones income goes into real estate? interesting...I am just curious to know how much do I need to earn to live comparably to the life we have in SA, with a 4 bed house in Durbanville. Anyway thanks for your insight guys

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#5 Tracey22

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 05:46 PM

I was looking at government grants for post-secondary education. In Ontario, a household income of more than $80 000 was considered middle income and does not qualfy for grants
Our household income is the same in Canada as in SA if we convert. My lifestyle is comparable, bearing in mind I do not have a gardener or maid (a live in nanny can cost $2500) and a cleaner from $15 per hour. We are saving more and living in a house that costs 5x what we could have afforded in SA, yet is a quarter of the size.

#6 Trevor&Anelle

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 06:27 PM

Freddy, I will be honest with you, most people I speak to don't come over and immediately live the same way they did in SA. Houses are EXPENSIVE, and it doesn't take long for most to be grateful that they are not as big, since you are responsible to clean it all yourself and do all the yard work. We don't eat out nearly as often as we did in SA because it is way more expensive. Obviously you have to weigh up things like insurance costs (way higher in Canada), education (cheaper especially if your kids were in private school), medical insurance (less in Canada), etc. etc. etc.

When we looked at moving, Trev was willing to work for less than he thought he should earn, in order to get a foot in the door. We are very blessed that he got a very fair offer, and that they moved us.

#7 Wolverine

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 07:25 PM

I agree with all the comments.

Freddy, here youu need to downgrade before you can make it. This can take up to 3 years or even more.

Depending on if you have kids or not, an $15/hr job for each of the adults can be a good start, (here in calgary).
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#8 annied

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 04:00 AM

also remember to factor in your RSA monthly expenses that you will no longer have
armed response like ADT
schooling
expensive medical aid that doesn't even cover everything
tracker unit on the car
maids and gardeners - do it your self and get a workout instead of joining a gym

maybe even sacrifice something when you get to canada - go easy on the TV cable at first (like DSTV), men can have nicely shaved heads - it saves on hairdresser bills
some things are cheaper and others are more costly (anything to do with labour, like hairdresser, maids)
also, most homes (rentals too) come with all kitchen electricals like stove, dishwasher, fridge
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#9 Tracey22

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 04:03 AM

Overall, I feel that there is a better standard of living in Toronto than in JHB

#10 Jules

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 05:30 AM

@so you are saying that chunk of ones income goes into real estate? interesting...I am just curious to know how much do I need to earn to live comparably to the life we have in SA, with a 4 bed house in Durbanville. Anyway thanks for your insight guys

For what it's worth we were in Durbanville also. Average middle class life: 4 BR home (200 square meters), 2 cars and working as a manager at Old Mutual. We were comfortable but far from rich. Came to Toronto and got "lucky" in that I got a comparable job immediately. In fact... it was probably a better job.

Standard of living remained about the same but we elected to live far from Toronto to access cheaper real estate and get more house for our money. I commute 90 minutes each way door to door. My income has grown to be a good one over 8 years but we are a single income family so I still consider ourselves middle class. It's a bit awkward discussion actual or personal salaries but I'd say if you lived within say 60km of Toronto you'd be ok on around $90,000 per year for middle class. Topping $100,000 things get pretty comfortable. But if you buy close to the city and you have a million dollar mortgage you'd need $200,000 a year!

At the risk of over simplifying a very complex topic, your home costs are the biggest issue. And some people view a 1,800 square foot home as middle class while another thinks it is 2,700 sqft. But those two homes could differ by a few hundred thousand on price.

#11 freddy

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 05:35 AM

Overall, I feel that there is a better standard of living in Toronto than in JHB



Look I agree with everything said here am just guaging the job I have just been offered. So change of plans I will be moving in September to resume a new job and start a new life. I am eternally grateful to God and thank you all for your candid advice. So house in the market now and still waiting for passport from Pretoria. I just resigned few minutes ago and it was quite an emotional thing for me. So when I asked the question yesterday was because the reality eventually done on me and I was just looking for every reasons to think that I am not making mistake. Gathering from all what you have said we should better off than in SA eventually. So thrill and scared at the same time.........pheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew what a feeling.

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#12 annied

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 08:18 AM

Congrats on the job
Just the fact that you have a job waiting for you already puts you in a much better position than most other PR people
You won't be spending much needed money for abou 6 months whilst lOoking for work
Your faith has rewarded you
Timeline:-
2 April 2010 Made the decision - 28 May 2010 Courier application to Syndey - 3 June 2010 Courier delivered in Sydney - 25 Aug 2010 Payment came of cr card - 25 Oct 2010 Received confirmation to forward docs to PTA - 22 Feb 2011 120 day deadline for Pta docs - 23 April 2012 received email wanting fresh new proof of funds, replied very promptly. - 21 May 2012 received the brown envelope requesting medicals BUT also requesting Saudi police clearance. Have a deadline of 14July to send them medicals, police clearance and residency fee. - 24 May 2012 medicals done and still struggling with the police clearance - 16 June 2012 received 30 extension on deadline - 17 July 2012 sent payment to CIC without Saudi police clearance - 08 Oct 2012 received passports with PR visa

#13 freddy

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 09:56 AM

Congrats on the job
Just the fact that you have a job waiting for you already puts you in a much better position than most other PR people
You won't be spending much needed money for abou 6 months whilst lOoking for work
Your faith has rewarded you


Thanks Annied. I pray that all our dreams will come to pass. I just signed the offer now electronically. Hopefully we sell house soon.

If it's going to be, it's up to me...therefore I will make my vision soooooooooooo big so that God can fit in!
 


#14 Trevor&Anelle

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 10:27 AM

CONGRATULATIONS!!!

To tie in with what Jules was saying: Trev was working in Ottawa, and we live in Kemptville (at least for another 3 weeks :) ) It was 50km one way for him, and the house prices are 1/2 of what we can expect for a basic 4 bedroom house in very basic part of Ottawa. Where we live now we also have 3 acres, which we couldn't have in Ottawa obviously. Now that we are moving to Cardinal (another 20 minutes away from where we live now - he just started a new job there), we bought an "expensive" house for the area on 5 acres. When the renovations are done, we would have 5 bedrooms, a school room, studio for my newborn photography etc. It is still WAY cheaper than what we would pay where we live now. It is still close enough to Ottawa (1 hour) that we can enjoy the museums, the kids can go to AWANA, we can sign up for homeschool soccer, etc. etc. etc. but it is far out enough that we could actually afford it!

#15 canuck nick

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 11:04 AM

Hi Freddy

Congrats on the job. Where will you be moving to?
If you are looking for a number then, according to Stats Canada, the average Canadian salary is around $45K p.a. and the average household income is around $90K p.a. These numbers wont mean anything until you decide where you will be staying because the cost of living in Canada is different from province to province. BC is by far the most expensive province to live in because the taxes are higher and the price of petrol (called ‘gas’ here) is higher. The gas industry is unregulated and different gas stations charge different prices and the prices fluctuate twice a day every day. (on a side note it is lower in the evenings, so fill your tank at night).

Think of Canada as the E.U. Even though its one country, each province has its own laws and tax rates, etc. Tax in Alberta is 5%. In BC it’s 12%. Gas price now in BC is around $1.34 per litre. In Alberta its probably around $1.00 per litre or cheaper. If I moved to Alberta now, earning what I earn now, my disposable income would increase around 15%-20% because housing is also cheaper than in BC.

$45K p.a. looks very low compared to SA salaries but the economy and pricing is structured differently than in SA. You can get by quite well on $45K p.a. The cost of cars is also relatively much cheaper than in SA.

Its all relative. Our standard of living is about the same as in SA. I earn an average salary and our kids go to a private school, play extra sport, and we have enough.

Emigration is 80% mental and 20% physical. If you want to succeed, you will. I know SA lawyers (who were top of the ladder in SA) who have worked in department stores and warehouses here because they want a better life for their kids. I also know ABSA and FNB corp bank managers who started as tellers here but worked their way back up to management. Its not easy for everyone to start all over again but faith and determination will get you through.

There are many ways of saving money here without sacrificing your std of living. Besides, living here makes one appreciate what one had in SA. There are certain things I still miss but we wouldn’t go back.

#16 freddy

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 11:38 AM

CONGRATULATIONS!!!

To tie in with what Jules was saying: Trev was working in Ottawa, and we live in Kemptville (at least for another 3 weeks :) ) It was 50km one way for him, and the house prices are 1/2 of what we can expect for a basic 4 bedroom house in very basic part of Ottawa. Where we live now we also have 3 acres, which we couldn't have in Ottawa obviously. Now that we are moving to Cardinal (another 20 minutes away from where we live now - he just started a new job there), we bought an "expensive" house for the area on 5 acres. When the renovations are done, we would have 5 bedrooms, a school room, studio for my newborn photography etc. It is still WAY cheaper than what we would pay where we live now. It is still close enough to Ottawa (1 hour) that we can enjoy the museums, the kids can go to AWANA, we can sign up for homeschool soccer, etc. etc. etc. but it is far out enough that we could actually afford it!


Trevor and Anelle,

Thanks so much for your insight into this discussion and it is well appreciated. I have now officially received my employee no and log in details.....awesome God. We trusted God and He came through for us. I am looking at renting a house first but we again still trusting God for my pension to be paid out before leaving otherwise I have to look for a way of getting the money across.

Please if anybody knows what is the best way to get money out of SA and what I need to do not to be double taxed.

Thanks

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#17 Cathy K

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 11:56 AM

Is this link still valid?
http://www.sacanada....n-south-africa/
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#18 freddy

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 12:17 PM

Hi Freddy

Congrats on the job. Where will you be moving to?
If you are looking for a number then, according to Stats Canada, the average Canadian salary is around $45K p.a. and the average household income is around $90K p.a. These numbers wont mean anything until you decide where you will be staying because the cost of living in Canada is different from province to province. BC is by far the most expensive province to live in because the taxes are higher and the price of petrol (called 'gas' here) is higher. The gas industry is unregulated and different gas stations charge different prices and the prices fluctuate twice a day every day. (on a side note it is lower in the evenings, so fill your tank at night).

Think of Canada as the E.U. Even though its one country, each province has its own laws and tax rates, etc. Tax in Alberta is 5%. In BC it's 12%. Gas price now in BC is around $1.34 per litre. In Alberta its probably around $1.00 per litre or cheaper. If I moved to Alberta now, earning what I earn now, my disposable income would increase around 15%-20% because housing is also cheaper than in BC.

$45K p.a. looks very low compared to SA salaries but the economy and pricing is structured differently than in SA. You can get by quite well on $45K p.a. The cost of cars is also relatively much cheaper than in SA.

Its all relative. Our standard of living is about the same as in SA. I earn an average salary and our kids go to a private school, play extra sport, and we have enough.

Emigration is 80% mental and 20% physical. If you want to succeed, you will. I know SA lawyers (who were top of the ladder in SA) who have worked in department stores and warehouses here because they want a better life for their kids. I also know ABSA and FNB corp bank managers who started as tellers here but worked their way back up to management. Its not easy for everyone to start all over again but faith and determination will get you through.

There are many ways of saving money here without sacrificing your std of living. Besides, living here makes one appreciate what one had in SA. There are certain things I still miss but we wouldn't go back.


Thanks sir, we are heading to Winnipeg and I hope Winnipeg is less expensive lol...:P

If it's going to be, it's up to me...therefore I will make my vision soooooooooooo big so that God can fit in!
 


#19 Trevor&Anelle

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 12:39 PM

Renting was a good decision for us. Houses are so different to what we knew in SA, that it gave us a chance to get used to that, see what issues could arise, etc. etc. etc. before buying!

God is indeed good!

#20 Trevor&Anelle

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 12:40 PM

Nirak on here lived in Winnipeg and she is a fantastic researcher. It might be good chatting to her :)




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